A negative experience

[crfriend]

Pythos' experience was not related to "freedom", it was related to stalking behaviour. It would have given me the willies as well.

[Since1982]

I'm going to add one more post to all this and then go on to something new. 2 things...

1. There just "might" be more "nutters" in ANY European or British Soccer/Football country than any of the biggest states (population wise) in the USA. IE: The typical after the fact melees of Soccer (Football, across the pond) seem to be far worse and with far more human death and destruction than any "sports" happening in the USA ever has been.

2. That F-bomb we've been discussing. Does anyone but me know the original meaning of the F-word? Personally, I really don't know when it changed from being a mundane commonplace word having nothing to do with any human pleasure acts. In dictionaries prior to approximately 1900 the word was defined as "To Hit" ..in other words, To F***etc meant "To Hit" and thats all. I don't know how it got from "To Hit" to the current usage and meaning. Thinking very loosely, one "could" understand what one does to promote the end result of a pregnancy could be "to hit" ... but I really have no idea how it got from "to hit" to the present word usage.

[Ray]

Skip, in answer to your post,

1. I don't think there's any point in taking relative scores of "nutters" in any one country - and it's my impression that nobody was implying this. I could go on and make more of this, but it's...well, not really relevant.

2. According to alt.usage.english.aq, said word... (my asterisks)...

"does NOT stand for "for unlawful carnal knowledge" or "fornication under consent of the king". It is not an acronym for
anything at all.

It is a very old word, recorded in English since the 15th century (few acronyms predate the 20th century), with cognates
in other Germanic languages. The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang (Random House, 1994, ISBN
0-394-54427-7) cites Middle Dutch _fokken_ = "to thrust, copulate with"; Norwegian dialect _fukka_ = "to copulate"; and Swedish dialect _focka_ = "to strike, push, copulate" and _fock_ = "p***s". Although German _ficken_ may enter the picture somehow, it is problematic in having e-grade, or umlaut, where all the others have o-grade or zero-grade of the vowel.

"AHD1, following Pokorny, derived "feud", "fey", "fickle", "foe", and "f**k" from an Indo-European root _*peig2_ = "hostile"; but AHD2 and AHD3 have dropped this connection for "f**k" and give no pre-Germanic etymon for it. Eric Partridge, in the 7th edition of _Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English_ (Macmillan, 1970), said that "f**k" "almost certainly" comes from the Indo-European root _*peuk-_ = "to prick" (which is the source of the English words "compunction", "expunge", "impugn", "poignant", "point", "pounce",
"pugilist", "punctuate", "puncture", "pungent", and "pygmy").

Robert Claiborne, in _The Roots of English: A Reader's Handbook of Word Origin_ (Times, 1989) agrees that this is "probably" the etymon. Problems with such theories include a distribution that suggests a North-Sea Germanic areal form rather than an inherited one; the murkiness of the phonetic relations; and the fact that no alleged cognate outside Germanic has sexual connotations."

Phew.

[Peter v]

It would seem that; "Middle Dutch _fokken_ = "to thrust, copulate with"; Norwegian dialect _fukka_ = "to copulate";"is the basis of the word, somehow having been used in possibly the US by imigrants? Possibly as an protest reaction to something.

"fokken" Is in the netherlands a well known term, meaning to go forth and multiply, mostly when large families, human or animal are involved, and generally it means to use studs to increase animal populations, mostly cattle and horses, but can be used for all living creatures. I think we may never really know where the use of certain words has started.

1 Just like "Homo". Where did that word start to be a swear word? If it has a relationship to behaviour, then I could shout "people" Because no matter who somebody is, male or female, any person can misbehave, but for some reason the word homo has stayed. Of course I was wearing a skirt. And that is one other stupidity of those ignoramuses, how many real homo sexual men wear skirts?

2 Just like "Homo". Which was shouted at me today by again two men in their end twenties, begin thirties. Nearly every time that happens, it is the same bloody stupid ignorant type of men. Strange but true. I suspect that they are the types who start fights for nothing. No social awareness, and probably never been bashed up by any of their "victims". Shouting at someone homo of course means that the shouters think they are from the "arian super race" but don't wear the swatstikka. One thing they forget, but are unaffected about is that by doing so, they show everybody else how damned stupid THEY are. "Normal" people don't do that. I was not hurt fysically by that, but it sure got my adrenalin going. It is a good thing I don't have a loaded gun with me. I may just be tempted to use it, as "MY" way of letting them know how I feel, showing that what they try to achieve has worked and they are getting theirs back.

But thankfully I don't have a gun with me. Those stupid arse holes do hurt, but thankfully it is not on a daily basis.

As for wearing texts on ones body, shirt hat or other, it should be something you stand behind. That is one of the things that bother me, so much clothing with all soorts of names like "College this "army issue"that, while there is nothing real about those clothes. I can understand that it happens, but that makes real clothing from those "places" less "real".

I don't think it is good to have swear words on one's self if you are not in a protest or the like. Actually I think that the liberal use of such words undermines the validity of using them. Freedom of "written speach" but not abuse.
End. As these discussions can go on and on.

[Since1982]

Just like "Homo". Where did that word start to be a swear word?

I don't know about the Scandivanian countries but it's never been a swear word in the USA. It's been a chant used by "idiots, fools, dimwits, rednecks, some but not most cops, drunks, teenagers, drunk college kids, anyone else that's homophobic or dense" to make themselves feel superior or smarter. It doesn't succeed.

Back to the F-Bomb, the early usage I talked about, is from English from at least the 800 AD times meaning simply "hit" and ''to f***'' was the same as "to hit". As far as my research tells me, the current usage in the English speaking world started in the early 1600's... with the fights between landowners and land renters. ie: farmers and ranchers..I think using the S**t word as feces has been since it's inception, still is and will continue to be the only crude usage. If anyone has any different input on that, please add it.

[Since1982]

This was somehow entered twice, so I deleted one of them.

[Departed Member]

Pythos' experience was not related to "freedom", it was related to stalking behaviour. It would have given me the willies as well.

The thing is, the individual in question was a nutter. Should we live in fear of nutters like him?

With all due respect, and I fully appreciate that being stared at in an 'indefinite' manner is indeed disconcerting, if they're doing it in 'open view', they aren't stalking! Stalking implies (& requires some degree of) furtiveness, and from a UK legal point of view, must have occurred on a 'number of occasions'. 99% of 'nutters', as we collectively refer to them, are completely harmless individuals, who are at worst, mentally retarded, or just a tad simple. "Standing and staring" is a common feature of such folk. If they perceive something 'out of the ordinary' (as far as they are concerned), then they will take far longer to correlate what they see. Violence, verbal or physical, is most unlikely. However, if they were to feel 'cornered' or deliberately provoked, then there might be a small degree of risk.

[Peter v]

It is debatable, but i assume the person possibly went through stalking behaviour, for the period that it took place, gave the feeling of being stalked. Stalking may have to be done consecutive times, to warrant police intervention, but every time it is done it is stalking. You can easily feel stalked and be stalked for that time, not knowing if there would be more moments as such. Any way I assume that it would make any one very uncomfortable. People behaving in a "stalking" manner. I am not answering for pythos but giving my own bit. As it may happen to any one of us at any given moment, and the name that comes to mind is "stalking".

[Departed Member]

It is debatabel, but i assume the person possibly went through stalking behaviour, for the period that it took place, gave the feeling of being stalked..... As it may happen to any one of us at any given moment, and the name that comes to mind is "stalking".

If that were the case, Peter, then the alleged 'stalkee' (for want of a better word) wouldn't have even been aware they were being 'stalked'. If the person is in 'full view', sorry, they ain't a 'stalker' - period.

[RokSterNL]

I feel and understand you are concerned about it, but not sure about the behaviour of the guy. Is it good or is it bad what the guy thinks in his mind about your outfit ? Did he scream to you ?

I think when people look my way it doesn't matter me, but when they scream terrible things like gay or something else it threatens me too.

But leggings I think that may no problem in the 21th century, or are some people narrow minded ?

In spite of I won't wear less skirts at all.

[Peter v]

It is debatabel, but i assume the person possibly went through stalking behaviour, for the period that it took place, gave the feeling of being stalked..... As it may happen to any one of us at any given moment, and the name that comes to mind is "stalking".

If that were the case, Peter, then the alleged 'stalkee' (for want of a better word) wouldn't have even been aware they were being 'stalked'. If the person is in 'full view', sorry, they ain't a 'stalker' - period.

Not quite, as I would assume that some of the thrill of the stalker is to let the stalked know he/she is being stalked. You can "stalk" people by following at some distance, always being in "stalking" distance. The feeling the person gave was to me deffinately one of being stalked. Think of it this way, people are often in the vicinity of other people, but are not being "stalked". People see each other, but sum up and ignore, a stalker can place himself in a normal daily confrontation position, but pay all his attention to the person being "stalked". At first he / she would not be noticed by the victim, until it becomes obvious of the intentions of the "stalker", to be seen by the way he acts. I am sure that lions can be seen by their prey, but they are not always stalking a particular prey...... the wariness of the prey signals out real stalking as to just lazing in the graas and looking at all the dinners walking past. I am not a stalker, so I cannot really know.

If he was or was not a stalker, he certainly gave the impression, the feeling of doing so. It was not said that he was actually a stalker, but gave the un-nerving feeling.

[Pythos]

Oh for god's sake people.

The nutter was following us, he hovered about us when one of our party went into a store to answer nature's call, and he follwed us some more.

If that is not stalking, I would like to know what is.

How would other here react if someone not of the group you are in at the time, started following you and hovering about?

I say, it creeped me out. I did not appreciate it, and whoa unto him had he tried anything.

[Peter v]

Oh for god's sake people.

The nutter was following us, he hovered about us when one of our party went into a store to answer nature's call, and he follwed us some more.

If that is not stalking, I would like to know what is.

How would other here react if someone not of the group you are in at the time, started following you and hovering about?

I say, it creeped me out. I did not appreciate it, and whoa unto him had he tried anything.

Rightly so. I do agree with you.
Whether the person was of sound mind or a loony also makes no difference.
People who behave like that give you an feeling of apprehension.
Like walking past a bull in a field, which is looking at you. Is he just staring, or sizing you up?

[Since1982]

Oh for god's sake people.

The nutter was following us, he hovered about us when one of our party went into a store to answer nature's call, and he follwed us some more.

If that is not stalking, I would like to know what is.

How would other here react if someone not of the group you are in at the time, started following you and hovering about?

I say, it creeped me out. I did not appreciate it, and whoa unto him had he tried anything.

Well, there IS another possible response, walk up to him and say, Hi! May I help you with something? I notice you've been following us and I was wondering what you might want, have a question about anything? We'd love to help you if we can!
You might be surprised that instead of being a stalker or a nutter, he just might be an interested, curious person too self concious to ask about why a man would want to wear a skirt, but might be interested in wearing one himself but was afraid to do so without seeing someone else doing it first. Ya never know, just because someone is curious, doesn't mean he is crazy, violent, dangerous, or a stalker.

I say, it creeped me out. I did not appreciate it, and whoa unto him had he tried anything.

Heaven forbid the person tapped you on the shoulder, he'd probably get the beating of his life for being curious. Looks like someone might need an Anger Management course.

[sapphire]

If you have never been stalked or had a loved one stalked you have no comprehension of the fear and anxiety the victim feels.

I think it would be appropriate to show Pythos a bit more empathy.