Presenting "as a woman"

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
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crfriend
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by crfriend »

skirted84 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:12 pm
For the last time can we just let this thread lie?
I've let it stand because it's calling into relief some of the reasoning behind the issue, especially in the TG area which we really cannot ignore. It's not been my favourite thread, but I get the point of it even if Skirt Cafe is not primarily about trans-* issues.

I was likely incorrect in my earlier assertion that there was no intersection between "men in skirts" and TG. I'll not say that the intersection is particularly large, but there's a non-trivial slice of it in there.

I candidly admit I've learnt some things from this thread, which might be one reason that it persists.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

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Thanks for clarification crfriend.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by jamodu »

My local Marks & Spencer store has far, far more variety and different types of Ladies’ Trousers than the Men’s section has Men’s Trousers.

If I chose to buy the right style from the Ladies’ section, I doubt that most people would be able to discern that I was wearing Ladies Trousers. Similarly, I can buy ‘Male’ appropriate Ladies’ T-Shirts and Tops that would not cause a second glance.

It’s doubtful that such Women who buy/wear such apparel would subconsciously think of themselves presenting as a Man. Their Husbands/Partners/Boyfriends are unlikely to believe that they are presenting as a Man, either.

Likewise, when I wear a Dress or Skirt with Tights, or wear Leggings, I don’t think of myself presenting as a Woman. Women dress for comfort, just as I do.

Just as Women have Boyfriend Cardigans, Boyfriend Jeans, Boyfriend Shorts, for example, In an ideal world Men could wear Girlfriend Dresses, Girlfriend Skirts, Girlfriend Tights, and Girlfriend Knickers, for example.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

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jamodu, yes, the girlfriend designated clothes would be nice an a logical step but....

....it is really unlikely to happen. More's the pity.

I wear loads of tops/trousers that come from the women's section and nobody, not even my wife who has generally encouraged me, has either noticed or commented.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

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Gheeze... my brain just blue screened..

I wondered "do we have two threads on the exact thing?", Then I remembered how it happened...

It's been a long week.


..a very long week, and it ain't over yet.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

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Moon, I've been on holiday all week and so am more relaxed, not having to deal with customers daily. One of these days I will retire. I don't really need the money, I just love the job but I can't go on working forever and BoJo adding to my tax bill next year may just encourage me to quit work. There are two main things keeping me in work, holiday uncertainties and sharesave. I am in a scheme that matures Dec 2022 in which I save a monthly amount to purchase company shares offered at a fixed bid price which is usually the share price on a particular day less a percentage. If I read the rules correctly, from summer next year I will be able to terminate the scheme and pay, as a lump sum, for the last 6 months of the scheme. I can then take the shares and sell them. Since I will potentially be doubling my money on the sale it is a lucrative scheme to be in. End of the day it's worth in the area of £25k to me. Two years wages at current rates so worth plodding on until next summer.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by moonshadow »

Sinned wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:18 pm
Moon, I've been on holiday all week and so am more relaxed, not having to deal with customers daily. One of these days I will retire. I don't really need the money, I just love the job but I can't go on working forever and BoJo adding to my tax bill next year may just encourage me to quit work. There are two main things keeping me in work, holiday uncertainties and sharesave. I am in a scheme that matures Dec 2022 in which I save a monthly amount to purchase company shares offered at a fixed bid price which is usually the share price on a particular day less a percentage. If I read the rules correctly, from summer next year I will be able to terminate the scheme and pay, as a lump sum, for the last 6 months of the scheme. I can then take the shares and sell them. Since I will potentially be doubling my money on the sale it is a lucrative scheme to be in. End of the day it's worth in the area of £25k to me. Two years wages at current rates so worth plodding on until next summer.
Well I've been on call since Tuesday morning....
Tuesday, I left home at 730 and got home at 2300.

Got into bed around 0030 Wednesday morning, got called back out at 0230 that morning (two hours of sleep)
Didn't get back home until around 1630, a quick shower and slept from 1700 until about 2000.
Up at 2000, ate, watched a little TV and tried to relay, in the bed by 2230.

Thursday left at 0645 and worked until around 2100 that night, showered ate, watched about half a Star Trek episode

Friday, left at 0730, didn't get back home until 0200 Saturday morning.

Phone went off again at 0730 this morning, but I was able to manage that over the phone, but I've been up ever since then.

That in combination with some other matters going on, have made this week one of the longest and taxing that I've had in a while.

The issue here is (in case you haven't heard) is a severe labor shortage. They say it's because of those extended unemployment benefits, but I heard those ended so I don't really understand what's causing the shortage now.. Nobody can keep any help anymore, and somehow or another it seems everyone is loaded with money all of the time, so they're piling into the hospitality sector (restaurants, hotels, special events, etc) We're actually fully staffed, but for various reasons it's caused an tremendous uptick in work load, particularly after hours for some reason.

I don't understand, some of these jobs are paying upwards of $20 per hour or more, and even they can't keep help. I don't know what's going on. The cost of virtually everything has went through the roof, rents and home prices are outrageous, utilities are skyrocketing, shelves are always empty of essentials and when they have it, the prices on those have gone up. The bacon we were buying at Walmart went from $4.50 per pound to over $7 per pound over night, so we stopped buying it.

The whole system is just so upside down and jarbled up..

Financially we haven't lived "near the edge" in over a decade, so right now I can easily absorb the runaway inflation for now... for now... and in fairness, the cost of literally everything would have to double before I couldn't make ends meet anymore (currently my entire financial burden is just under half of what my take home pay is... ), so I'm alright for now. But I sure do miss being able to find what I need on the shelf and not paying out the ass for it.

I would be nice to have some cooperative leadership in our nation.. but I'm afraid those days are long behind us.

I hope you all are doing better over yonder.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by STEVIE »

jamodu wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:46 pm
In an ideal world Men could wear.............etc.
Jamodu, in the "real" world, men may and do actually wear all that stuff but we don't talk about that.
When a guy boasts about having been in his girlfriend's pants, no way will he admit that he means it literally.
It is also not likely for the girlfriend to admit encouraging such things if she is even aware that her "macho hunk" is indulging in such
"weird shenanigans".
Just life and behind closed doors, probably not the weirdest either.
Must stress that I am not issuing a challenge as to who can get the most outlandish either.
Steve.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

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Moon, you could be talking about over here. Shortage of beteen 80,00 - 100,000 lorry drivers. Reports of agencies going into "greasy spoons" and offering £2000 signing on fee and £75,000 for a 6 day night dHospitality short of front and kitchen staff. Allegedly 50,000 doctors short despite earning £100,000, nurses, midwives, fruit and veg pickers..... The list goes on. We have staff shortages at our store which is why I'm working double my contracted hours. Everything is, well, strange.

I worked all sorts of strange and long hours in IT during one of my employments. Ruined my health - gave me depression which gave me diabetes and which ruined my hearing. I hope it doesn't happen to you as you can't go on working those hours. You'll end up falling asleep at the wheel and kill yourself. And you won't even know you've done it. Take care, mate, been there and, to use one of Carl's phrases, it's not pleasant.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by moonshadow »

Sinned wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:26 pm
Everything is, well, strange.
I just don't understand, where did all the workers go?

I mean, if these people aren't drawing a government check anymore then how are they putting food on the table? Am I missing something?

It's like these stories I hear of healthcare workers threatening to quit if they are forced into getting a covid shot. If every employer with over a hundred employees (which is basically all medial workers) requires the shot.. where are they going to work?

It's like having a job and earning a paycheck isn't a requirement for first world lifestyles anymore... boy I really missed the boat somehow! :lol:
Sinned wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:26 pm
I hope it doesn't happen to you as you can't go on working those hours. You'll end up falling asleep at the wheel and kill yourself. And you won't even know you've done it. Take care, mate, been there and, to use one of Carl's phrases, it's not pleasant.
Ah, I'll be alright, but thanks anyway. Really this week was one for the record books, and is very rare. But even if it wasn't I only have to pull call once every four weeks as it is, and my boss is good for working with me to get me home when I need to get some rest.

In fact, aside from that 0730 wakeup call this morning, I haven't had anything since, and it's 1245 now. Maybe things will finally start to calm down.

I worked such a long shift yesterday that I actually messed up the timeclock program at work (I was supposed to clock out at 2359 and back in at 0000 but I forgot) Now I've got a "punch error" on my timecard and my boss has to fix it Monday, but the point is I don't know exactly what I'm up to now, but I calculate roughly that I'm sitting on about 55 hours for the week... and I was off Monday. So that's 55 hours in four days.

Lord have mercy.
"The price of freedom of religion or of speech or of the press is that we must put up with, and even pay for, a good deal of rubbish."

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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:53 pm
I just don't understand, where did all the workers go?

I mean, if these people aren't drawing a government check anymore then how are they putting food on the table? Am I missing something?
Most everybody now has a "side hustle" going on, and is already likely working at least one if not two McJobs so they're badly burnt out -- and, face it, sub-minimum wage "hospitality 'jobs'" are (1) tough on the workers and (2) pay poorly.

Also, it seems that a lot of folks in my capacity are simply saying, "Screw this!" and retiring. I am extraordinarily close to doing that myself and likely will if this idiot job (it can't be considered a career any longer) doesn't get better soon likely will simply to save what little is left of my sanity.
It's like these stories I hear of healthcare workers threatening to quit if they are forced into getting a covid shot. If every employer with over a hundred employees (which is basically all medial workers) requires the shot.. where are they going to work?
Anybody in the health care field who doesn't get vaccinated is a risk factor and should be let go (we'll see if Gusto chimes in on this one). That's just plain idiocy.
So that's 55 hours in four days.
I worked like that in the '80s, but I had a spectacular boss, a job I loved, and customers that even though they were in distress were always happy to see me. There was at least one week that I had 100 hours of time on the clock -- and that was when I collected overtime. Not any longer; I'm on salary so the boss and the company take full advantage of that and demand 10 to 12 hour days on a routine basis. I hate what passes for "labour law" in the USA. I'd emigrate, but no country seems to want ex-pat US citizens (I learnt that in the '80s when I wanted to get out due to the then political situation, and that's only gotten worse since).
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by Sinned »

Moon, there are still a lot of workers on furlough where the government pays 80% of their normal wage up to £2500 per month and their employers can top this up voluntarily. This scheme finished at the end of the month so it is felt that there may be a substantial number of redundancies. Where have the workers gone? A lot back to the EU or their home countries, furlough due to finish. Who knows? Maybe they are just too lazy and are prepared to live off social and charity handouts. All my family of working age are in employment, the rest education.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

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by crfriend » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:13 am

I hate what passes for "labour law" in the USA. I'd emigrate, but no country seems to want ex-pat US citizens (I learnt that in the '80s when I wanted to get out due to the then political situation, and that's only gotten worse since).
What? Indeed labor law, and many other safety net items continue to be weakened if not eliminated by the on-going effort of the Republican party on demand from your nemesis, the Oligarch Kings. Pensions, 401K rules, Social Security and more being battered by rule changes and taxes that somehow seem to only impact the poor. A medical system that creates more personal bankruptcies than any other event make living in the US a financial challenge as well as a social and cultural one. So, making a stake elsewhere can have great appeal -- and it is EASY. Many countries are seeking ex-pats from the better healed nations. I live in one, there are estimated to be about 50,000 of us just from the US. Canadians, Germans, Brits, Italians,....all add a bunch more. And it is EASY to get in, and stay. Even your medical will be cheap and in a system that has better outcomes than the US.

Numerous other countries have open doors as well. They aren't always the places we think of first, but many are easily attained and viable -- even rewarding. ALL come with a cultural 'shock' to some degree and you need to assess what is important in your life-style, but there is something out there for most anyone with even a modicum of retirement income. For younger folk, the world is almost at their feet. I confess, we would have stayed in New Zealand given a choice, but the Immigration folks there declared we were "POD's" -- too Poor, too Old, too Dumb -- though they didn't use those particular words! Lawyers advised us to get divorced and marry Kiwis!

OK, I will get off my soapbox -- this is the wrong thread anyway, but Retirement Opportunities abound unless you carry a heavy FBI or crime history, in which case your black dollars will open other doors!
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by STEVIE »

I could have posted this as a wild sighting but somehow, "presenting as a woman", just seems more appropriate.
When I was in town yesterday I saw someone who was clearly male presenting as a woman.
Even to my challenged optics he was not being very convincing.
However, that got me to thinking about some of the things that have already been said here.
For me it took me back some 40 plus years when I was "that guy".
His motivation, is he transgendered or just a gender tourist?
Would he be happy as a guy in a skirt but cannot see himself in one unless he appears aux femme? Have such conditions changed so radically for everyone in the last half century. I couldn't even guesstimate age except younger than me but not a child,
Obviously, one can only speculate on potential answers but for him at least, perhaps the most challenging he has ever had to face.
He wasn't being hassled but an educated guess from his body language suggested he was a long way from a comfort zone.
Perhaps he will strike lucky and end up by the potted plant?
Steve.
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Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by rode_kater »

moonshadow wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:39 pm
I don't understand, some of these jobs are paying upwards of $20 per hour or more, and even they can't keep help. I don't know what's going on.
The explanation typically given here is that during the downturn, lots of people who were in jobs that were badly affected, like hotels/restaurants/travel, took the time to train for other jobs less susceptible. They had income to pay for any courses, and there were labour shortages before Covid to provide direction.

So now lots of the people who used to work in those badly affected industries are now gainfully employed in other industries not affected by Covid and probably earning more. They're not coming back. Lots of people moved house because they could work from home, they're not coming back either.

Now, I'm not sure if enough statistics have been collected yet to prove or deny this hypothesis, but it fits with what I've seen around me.
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