New boy on the block

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crfriend
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by crfriend »

Skaterboy wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:16 am
Where we part company is at your aspiration for "pretty". I don't think that's what I'm trying to achieve.
That's not usually the intent, but I like to have the option open -- and it can attract some nice attention from the womenfolk.

The best thing with branching out from drab is the choice of fabrics that one gets access to. One gets very tired of poly-cotton blends and denim after a while.
I think this may be a slow journey. I ordered a utility kilt for everyday to 'soften up' my community to the sight of me in a skirt. Come next year's warmer weather I'll start probing the boundaries of what counts as a kilt. Meanwhile I'm just experimenting at home, and getting used to what it means and feels like to live in a skirt.
Perhaps, and don't worry if it goes in fits and starts occasionally. I'm sure that most here have had "butterflies" when starting out, simply because it is such a big change and it thrusts us into an unfamiliar world. All of a sudden we need to start worrying about colour, and then how various fabrics behave, and what goes with what, &c, &c.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
New-in-Skirts
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by New-in-Skirts »

Welcome Skaterboy
Grok
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Grok »

Skaterboy wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:16 am

@Grok, I'm still working on creating the styles; but a good starting point is the kilt - that's as masculine AF, and girls are practically orgasmic just to see it! The challenge for me is to maintain that response while breaking free of the strict definitions of what counts as a kilt. The reaction I'm trying to provoke is not "transvetite", or "gay", but "hot guy". As I mentioned earlier, I think denim and cargo/utility style skirts are a good place to start, then matched with masculine/unisex accessories - boots, hoody, mens' jumper, etc.

To be a "hot guy" in a non-kilt design, I imagine that one would need to wear the garment with panache. As for the skirt I would guess (I lack a female perspective) that a design which conveys ruggedness would seem the most masculine.
Faldaguy
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Faldaguy »

Skaterboy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:42 am
There is a profound and unchallenged taboo against men wearing skirts, with a presumption that it is inevitably in some way 'effeminite'. Many male skirt-wearers appear to embrace this perception, and adopt styles that express their femininity. [...] My ambition is to define a distinctively male style of skirt-wearing that cannot be so easily written off, and is effective in challenging the continuing underlying inequality in gender politics.


I have some different perceptions of your take on the public perception of MIS. I might agree that, in some countries, there is a "profound and unchallenged" expectation (not Taboo) about men wearing skirts. I think to say there is a 'taboo' is an inaccurate and far too strong of word.

You also write that the view of MIS carries "a presumption that it is inevitably in some way effeminate" and that "many male skirt-wearers appear to embrace this perception and adopt styles that express their femininity". Again, I wonder if this is true -- or just a perception in your mind?

"Many" is not a well-defined term, but I would venture that "many" do not presume to be, or seek to be feminine--often times quite the contrary, if I am hearing the men on this sight correctly. And while there are indeed men who do gravitate to more colors, softer fabrics, flowing styles that might be considered more common to females in this era, they still are not seen as nor necessarily viewed as being feminine but simply MIS enjoying the comfort, color, and art of style AS A MAN, a perception enhanced as they still present and carry themselves as men.

Nor do I think that the general public has a "presumption" that any male wearing a skirt if "effeminate". Such men may be considered a bit different, strange, daring....and many other terms in some folks view, but to generalize that it is a common presumption I think may be more a reflection of your feelings, than necessarily the publics in general.

It is the line you wrote:
Meanwhile I'm just experimenting at home, and getting used to what it means and feels like to live in a skirt.
that makes me wonder if your worries and assumptions about the public perceptions are speaking your truth as you feel it presently -- before setting out in public and discovering as most of us have -- that the public, for the most part, does not seem to give a hoot; nor have any uniform notions about MIS. I cannot recall a single instance of anyone saying or acting in a manner that they thought I was female, trans, queer, or anything but a guy wearing a skirt. Yet, many probably thought my attire was unusual, perhaps even weird -- but hardly worth more than a moments notice. Now, my style is not a "far out" as some, but reading in SC only tells me that you can really push well beyond just being a guy in a blah skirt or kilt and still not be "written off" -- either as a male or in violation of some "profound taboo". I hope that when your skirt wearing, regardless of the choice, takes to the public domain, you too will feel as comfortable and accepted as the man you are without a sense of violating some mysterious taboo! I support you all the way in challenging "underlying inequality in gender politics" -- though you will find, especially with some on this site, that that cuts both ways!
Grok
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Grok »

Utility kilts were well received here in Seattle, Skaterboy. I believe that people associate the garments with kilts rather than skirts.

I think that blue denim would be a good choice for conveying ruggedness. The obvious association is with jeans, but unlike jeans I believe that a denim skirt could be worn with panache.
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Rokje
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Rokje »

@Skaterboy
Unisex skirts: Skirtcraft.com.

I love those skirts a long time now, and I wear one right now.
Be proud to wear a skirt or dress, they are just clothes. Yes , they are for men too
I'm Marica, a 56 year old girl.

8)
Skaterboy
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Skaterboy »

Wow, so much response! I'm overwhelmed! Thank you once again to all for your kind welcomes and encouraging words.

I have been affected by this searching, and I think insightful, article from 'Racked':
https://www.racked.com/2018/4/23/172615 ... en-dresses
To quote: "The display of skirts on men is effectively an undermining of male power — by males. To put it extremely, they are like deserting troops."
Skirt-wearing by men is a feminist statement. That's why it's resisted, and that's also why real men need to do it. As long as men reject skirt-wearing they are in fact clinging to the residual power imbalance of outdated gender politics.

People might also be interested in this discussion here:
https://www.debate.org/opinions/should-men-wear-skirts?
The negative comments are as interesting as the positive ones.

And finally, this one:
https://theconversation.com/why-shouldn ... rts-112623

I apologise if I'm recycling familiar territory.
Grok
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Grok »

Skaterboy wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:16 am

@Grok, I'm still working on creating the styles; but a good starting point is the kilt - that's as masculine AF, and girls are practically orgasmic just to see it! The challenge for me is to maintain that response while breaking free of the strict definitions of what counts as a kilt. The reaction I'm trying to provoke is not "transvetite", or "gay", but "hot guy". As I mentioned earlier, I think denim and cargo/utility style skirts are a good place to start, then matched with masculine/unisex accessories - boots, hoody, mens' jumper, etc.
Perhaps a garment designed as athletic wear might be helpful?

In the Links section there are a couple businesses that market such garments-Running Kilts and Purple Rain Skirts. These aren't actually kilts, but skirts designed for athletic/outdoors activities.
rode_kater
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by rode_kater »

I'm not sure I agree with that line of argument. I mean, if it's all about male power, can someone lend me theirs because I seem to have misplaced mine. There are certainly people who really get all upset if a guy wears a dress, but they are so far in the minority that we shouldn't let them drive the conversation. The way I see it:

Most people won't notice
Most people who notice won't care
Most people who care won't say anything

And certainly in my experience this is all true. Most people are so wrapped up in their own lives they won't even notice. Well, I guess pink tutus would be an exception, they simply scream for attention.

The only way to make it normal, is to make it common, and that's to just do it.
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Grok »

I took a look at the debate.org link. Usual objections based on convention. In Western Civilization MIS is against convention, and people experience cognitive dissonance at the sight. People are used to things being a certain way.

Other cultures have had other conventions regarding mens wear. In which it has been conventional for men to wear garments that we would describe as skirt like, dress like, or robe like. Of course, this argument won't persuade many people.
Grok
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Grok »

Skaterboy, there have been some threads regarding what skirts may gain traction. I don't recall any of the thread titles, but I believe some of them are in the kilts and Skirts section. There has been extensive discussion.
Dust
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Dust »

Welcome!

I think we are on much the same page, and taking a similar approach (utility kilts then easing into other skirts). I have similar concerns about "feminine" and "effeminate" (the two words are NOT synonymous) perceptions and my goals are about equality and clothing options for men, society wide, as well as for myself.

There was an entire thread here about whether the trans movement was good or bad for acceptance of male skirt wearing, broadly. It got heated, as there are strong and conflicting options about it on here. Such topics are permitted, but tend towards arguments.
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Sinned
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by Sinned »

Dust, the arguments generally come down to personal perceptions of ones gender or whatever and semantics. I tend to the fact that I'm an individual, can think and decide for myself and don't put myself into any little box and thus don't straightjacket myself into anything. Clothing are just garments which to me are decorative and don't imply anything as to my gender or sexuality.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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mishawakaskirt
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by mishawakaskirt »

Yes welcome, skaterboy!!!!!
You found ( my opinion) the best MIS site on the internet.
I too was frustrated by some of the other sites on the internet. Over the years I checked out many sites. Quickly getting turned off by some of the stuff posted and shared on them. (TV it's not me, tried it for a short time, never felt right.
I joined SC in 2015 and have never regretted it. While there have been a few disagreements. Most everyone here are decent level headed skirt wearing men. And supportive women (that Hopefully exercise the choice to wear skirts.)

The cafe gave me just the encouragement I needed. Largely feeling alone, I found out that I am not alone.

I don't go for the feminine look either, my life is complicated enough I don't need to worry about trying to be fashionable, or trying to create a look or style.
I just skirt for comfort. In a masculine context.

Be you, enjoy the ride. In kilts and skirts. Enjoy the Skirt café.
Looking forward to reading your posts in the future.
Mishawakaskirt @2wayskirt on Twitter

Avoid the middle man, wear a kilt or skirt.
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denimini
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Re: New boy on the block

Post by denimini »

Sinned wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:17 pm
I tend to the fact that I'm an individual, can think and decide for myself and don't put myself into any little box and thus don't straightjacket myself into anything. Clothing are just garments which to me are decorative and don't imply anything as to my gender or sexuality.
Quite so. Anyone making assumptions about someone by their clothing is not judging a book by it's cover but judging it by it's gift wrapping.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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