Cultural Appropriation?

Kilt-based fashions, both traditional and contemporary. Come on guys, bring on the pleats!
Grok
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by Grok »

Utility kilts are too new to be anybody's tradition. And if you look closely, it is obvious that utility kilts are not especially similar to traditional kilts.
ScotL
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by ScotL »

Myopic Bookworm wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:58 pm
ScotL wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:50 am
Myopic Bookworm wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:03 am
I don't wear blue jeans because they are a cultural marker of a culture I don't want to be associated with.)
Blue jeans are ubiquitous. ... Which one of these cultures is your silent protest against?
Against the ubiquity. I protest against a society in which people are so lacking in individuality or initiative that they all wear blue jeans like a uniform. To wear blue jeans is to capitulate to the global dominance of American culture, its uniformity, its rejection of everyday style and embrace of a shared inelegance. I avoid cola and McDonald's for the same reason. It's the same kind of cultural hegemony that assumes that all men like football and cars (and trousers!), and that everyone watches television shows and Hollywood movies, listens to popular music, and follows celebrities in the popular media.

(I am, of course, inconsistent, hypocritical, and exaggerating!) :wink:
Wow. Just wow. You got a lot to unpack.
ScotL
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by ScotL »

Grok wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:33 am
Utility kilts are too new to be anybody's tradition. And if you look closely, it is obvious that utility kilts are not especially similar to traditional kilts.
I think utility kilts are a great invention. A manly skirt (yes, kilts are a wrap skirt, we need to get over that hang up, I’ll say no more about it) that is accepted by manly men. Enough similarity to a traditional kilt to bring in the “Braveheart” sense but not so dressy to require hose, brogues, Jacobite shirts or short suit coats.
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Jim
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by Jim »

Grok wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:33 am
Utility kilts are too new to be anybody's tradition. And if you look closely, it is obvious that utility kilts are not especially similar to traditional kilts.
At least some utility kilts are pleated knee-length wrap skirts, the basic definition of a kilt.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by FLbreezy »

Grok wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:33 am
Utility kilts are too new to be anybody's tradition. And if you look closely, it is obvious that utility kilts are not especially similar to traditional kilts.
Other than the big external pockets (which I am not a fan of) and the material, the utility kilts I have are pretty similar to my regular kilts in terms of the main features (rear pleats, side buckles, front apron).
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mishawakaskirt
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by mishawakaskirt »

Myopic Bookworm wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:26 pm
Not sure whether to laugh or cry at this combination of bigotry and ignorance.

I've had people start dropping comments about Scotland when I wear a utility kilt: I've generally just ignored it.

And a lot of it's just that.
IGNORANCE

Without getting into the "is a kilt a skirt" debate
Or when is a utility kilt is no longer a kilt.

To a majority of the ignorant it's going to be a skirt.

Like I mentioned previously in another thread.
I knew it was called a kilt but I didn't know all the details, I didn't know a kilt was effectively to a wrap skirt with buckles. From a no experience with kilts perspective, it looks just like a knee length half pleated tartan skirt.
It wasn't until I started seeking to buy one that I learned of it's hidden workings, aprons, buckles.
I didn't know what the sporran was called either.

Scotland, bag pipes etc.
The kilt is very stereotypical.
Kilt = Scottish.
Scottish= kilt

To some ignorant I m sure they think that right now every guy in Scotland is running around in a kilt.
If you are wearing a kilt you must have just flown in from across the pond.
You can't hide in a kilt and for the most part people seem to be kilt curious, they see you, they want to talk to you, get a better look at you, so they try to strike up a conversation about something, but what? The election? The weather? Gas prices? Think of something? ....Scottish. You may have heard it all before but to them you are actually different. Be gracious.
Be a positive influence.
You are going to be a topic around the dinner table tonight like it or not. Be it a positive one.

Possible conversation somewhere tonight

Hey guys guess what I saw today.
What?
I saw a guy in a kilt at the store.
Ok, did you get to talk to him or anything?
I didn't know what to say, I ask him about Scotland, he must have been having a bad day however, he was rather mean talking to me.
Maybe he was homesick? I'm sure this country has to be quite different than Scotland. Being the only guy not in trousers has to be quite unsettling.
Very mean man, nice kilt though.
So what's the weather going to be like tomorrow?


"Nice pants" said no one ever.
"I saw this guy in jeans at the store today." Said no one ever


Just like to some ignorants, any skirt on a man might be called a kilt. Several of you have commented that people have referred to your "clearly a skirt" as a kilt. It could be disputed that some in this category are aware it's a skirt but are afraid that they might embarrass or somehow might offend you. Men don't wear skirts so it must be a kilt logic.
Maby he thinks he is wearing a kilt?


BIGOTRY

If you fill a room with 100 people.
And you walk into it in a kilt or a skirt.
Some won't notice.
Some notice and admire
Some notice and are indifferent
Some notice and dislike it.
1 will notice and be that jerk.

You can't please everyone
Mishawakaskirt @2wayskirt on Twitter

Avoid the middle man, wear a kilt or skirt.
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Myopic Bookworm
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by Myopic Bookworm »

Calling a skirt a kilt is sometimes just being cautious about saying the wrong thing: like us Brits hearing an accent and asking if someone is Canadian, since if they do happen to be Canadian they'll be really happy at being recognized, and if they're American they might be surprised but they probably won't be bothered.
STEVIE
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by STEVIE »

I wonder what sort of "appropriation" the Kilt Gestapo would call this.
Pretty lady but her attire would cause an apoplectic seizure among some folks.
Steve
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ScotL
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by ScotL »

Myopic Bookworm wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:02 pm
Calling a skirt a kilt is sometimes just being cautious about saying the wrong thing: like us Brits hearing an accent and asking if someone is Canadian, since if they do happen to be Canadian they'll be really happy at being recognized, and if they're American they might be surprised but they probably won't be bothered.
I honestly don’t know why it’s even discussed. If someone called my pants dungarees or jeans and they weren’t, I couldn’t care less. Calling a skirt a kilt seems like such a trivial thing. Why does anyone care? If men were magically deemed accepted wearing skirts but only if they were called a kilt, would that stop anyone? If it did, why? At the end of the day, don’t we just care to be able to wear whatever we please regardless of what it’s called?
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moonshadow
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by moonshadow »

Dust wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:22 pm
So I was recently accused of "cultural appropriation" by a woman (who was wearing jeans at the time) at a party. I was in a khaki Utilikilt. She seemed to have no real understanding that this was not a "traditional Scottish kilt" but just saw kilt and thought that I must be wearing it out of Scottish pride. When I told her I wasn't Scottish and just liked it (comfort, etc.) she thought this was unacceptable! She even felt the need to tell me that it was "a kilt not a skirt"!
Who the hell died and made her the culture police??

I think I would have told her to mind her own damned business! Full stop!

Then again, maybe this is why I don't get invited to parties... but on the other hand, if that's the crap I have to endure, I'm happy to stay home and watch DVD's on a Saturday night! Or spend a quiet night in the mountains with just my wife and I... no judgement from anyone and I can wear whatever I want.
It's not a big deal unless you make it one.
john62
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by john62 »

A DVD do they still exist?

John
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moonshadow
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by moonshadow »

...cultural appropriation..

What kind of woke bullsh!t is this..? I had to look it up!

Cultural appropriation is the inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity


That just crawls all over me.

So basically Dust, you can't wear a kilt becasue that would be imitating Scots..

You can't wear a skirt becasue that would be imitating women, or at the very least trans-women or cross dressers, which most people here arent..aren't...

I guess you can't eat Chinese food, Mexican, Vietnamese, etc...

Tell me.... are you allowed to be a regular American cowboy?

Maybe she might b!tch about my hat because I'm not a real hillbilly?

I was raised in single wide trailers so I guess the only thing I'm allowed to do is buy my food with food stamps, drink mountain dew and shoot up meth.. I mean, isn't that what we call "plain white trash culture"?? That's why I am after all....

What a load of crap. ... cultural appropriation.. sounds like people who think their sh!t don't stink to me.

"You can not imitate me peasant! I am better than you! I am of a more pure bloodline than you...! I have pedigree, you're just garbage, and garbage has no place imitating me!"

What audacity. Wear what you want and to hell with her!
It's not a big deal unless you make it one.
ScotL
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by ScotL »

moonshadow wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:48 am
...cultural appropriation..

What kind of woke bullsh!t is this..? I had to look it up!

Cultural appropriation is the inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity


That just crawls all over me.

So basically Dust, you can't wear a kilt becasue that would be imitating Scots..

You can't wear a skirt becasue that would be imitating women, or at the very least trans-women or cross dressers, which most people here arent..aren't...

I guess you can't eat Chinese food, Mexican, Vietnamese, etc...

Tell me.... are you allowed to be a regular American cowboy?

Maybe she might b!tch about my hat because I'm not a real hillbilly?

I was raised in single wide trailers so I guess the only thing I'm allowed to do is buy my food with food stamps, drink mountain dew and shoot up meth.. I mean, isn't that what we call "plain white trash culture"?? That's why I am after all....

What a load of crap. ... cultural appropriation.. sounds like people who think their sh!t don't stink to me.

"You can not imitate me peasant! I am better than you! I am of a more pure bloodline than you...! I have pedigree, you're just garbage, and garbage has no place imitating me!"

What audacity. Wear what you want and to hell with her!
Awesome rant! I can understand people of a culture not appreciating another culture doing something that mocks their culture. But I was always raised to say “imitation is the highest form of flattery”. I think we’d all be a better world if we did “walk a mile in each other’s shoes”.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by Dust »

Thank you all for the reassuring comments. I appreciate you all, a lot.

The right solution: walk away. Sometimes easier said than done, but knowing when and how (and following through) are important (and very underrated) skills that I need to work on.
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moonshadow
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Re: Cultural Appropriation?

Post by moonshadow »

Dust wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:26 am
Sometimes easier said than done, but knowing when and how (and following through) are important (and very underrated) skills that I need to work on.
Don't we all.... I need to work on it too, though it's hard when someone is that rude. And it is rude. People really need to learn to mind their own business.

If she was that offended at the party, she should have just left you alone. What you wear is your right, she has no say.
It's not a big deal unless you make it one.
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