Kilts mainstream

[Dale]

We need a united voice but that is almost impossible while most men don't come out in public for their own very good reasons.

The ideal situation would be for a high profile media person, business man or politition to start wearing skirts full time. We need to make people think more about the issue and to do that they must be constantly reminded that men are entitled to wear what they want and we do have options.

And in the western world that wearing a skirt does NOT automatically make you a crossdresser or gay. Just comfortable and happy with themselves. A state a lot more men need to be in.

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Aye, the first sentence of the quote is the problem. I posted a proposal concerning making a documentary motion picture with the intent of getting it aired on the Documentary Channel. I have had zero replies (see post under In the News / advocacy). A little depressing, since I think greater public exposure is needed to bring the subject of wearing of skirts and kilts by men into the mainstream. Lacking the conditions of paragraph two of the above quote, a documentary would be the next best thing, or so I had thought.

The Documentary Channel does not pay producers for the content, but will provide free air time if broadcast quality standards are in compliance. i do not think that there would be no potential to make any money but as a skirt wearing male, I think it would be in my best interest, and the interest of the members of this forum (skirtcafe) to do the video. I am obviously wrong, or perhaps paragraph one is the overriding factor here (not quite sure which). I would think that anyone with the courage to publicly wear a skirt would be at least somewhat interested.

There are funding sources available for independent producers, and if there was any interest I would submit a funding proposal. I can't make a video featuring only myself. So it is with some measure of disappointment that I figure that there is no real interest in trying to bring the topic into the mainstream. Broadcast on cable and satellite TV would have been good start, or so I thought. I used to work in TV broadcasting so video quality issues are not a problem, as I have professional HD video production equipment and experience. As I said I can not make a motion picture featuring only myself, if the people of this forum are not interested in participating, no point for me to try to proceed with a funding request to cover the production costs.

I had hoped that the conditions of paragraph three of Tassierob's quote could be made clear in the motion picture. So it it with some measure of disappointment I will drop the topic, and continue with the documentary that I am currently working on. I guess the best I can do at this point is to just continue to wear a skirt in public. This is a usefull forum for the discussion of skirt / kilt issues, and I am glad it is here, but the message needs wider distribution.

[Milfmog]

Dale,

I am surprised that you have not received any replies to your proposal. Sadly geography prevents me from assisting (I'm the wrong side of the herring pond). Perhaps a few folks from Western shores will get in touch now you've reposted on the topic; I certainly hope so.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that there are other men here who are sufficiently interested to offer some time and opinions for you.

Have fun,


Ian.

[crfriend]

I posted a proposal concerning making a documentary motion picture with the intent of getting it aired on the Documentary Channel. I have had zero replies (see post under In the News / advocacy). A little depressing, since I think greater public exposure is needed to bring the subject of wearing of skirts and kilts by men into the mainstream.

Another possibility, and the one that has kept me from making any cogent commentary on the topic is the mind-boggling scope of the endeavour -- there's so much inertia behind the standard male uniform of today that one's own mind wedges up in the task of trying to figure out where to apply the right amount of thrust to change the direction in which things are going.

This is not to say that there aren't guys out there who prefer skirts to trousers -- we here are proof. I do not shirk from wearing a skirt in public as I am more than able to defend (in an intellectual sense) my choice of attire when asked about it; however, I cannot, and do not, presume to speak for other men.

Lacking the conditions of paragraph two of the above quote, a documentary would be the next best thing, or so I had thought.

The thing that bothers me in "having a role model" is that I feel that would stifle creativity on the part of the individual. Having a professional athlete -- a "jock" -- set the tone might well get some of the youngsters to contemplate the idea. The problem there is that they will ape the notion thoughtlessly and without creativity. And then, snap, we have a uniform of denim skirts on the younger set instead of (hopefully) "droopy drawers".

The same situation would happen with a well known movie star: another uniform. Although, in this case, why the kilt has not caught on thanks to Sir Sean Connery one needs to wonder -- at least until one takes a good hard look at what an all-up proper kilt rig costs.

I prefer the notion of a "bottom up" scenario. This is where independent free-thinking men -- the best and the brightest, for all intents and purposes -- begin to quietly adopt various forms of non-trousered rigs. This preserves creativity, which for a free-thinker is important; bright folks do not like to be stifled. The last time there was one whit of creativity in men's clothing was in the 1970s. It's been a vast wasteland ever since -- and it's bloody depressing. However, I do not -- most emphatically NOT -- want to trade one small box for another box, even if it might be a wee bit bigger. I want to blow the box completely away.

The above having been said, I would be happy to participate in such a project if it wasn't for the unfortunate fact that the driver is most of a continent away. Also, this is not the best time of year for me to be doing much of anything as this is my hibernation time. Spring, though, is coming. There's also the question of the format of the documentary; I'd be interested in ideas, not just from Dale but also from others. I participated in Zazie89 and Jerome's project by way of still imagery and answers to various questions to which I wrote an interview-style response to, but stills sometimes do not do the concept of skirts on guys well. Sometimes motion is required to get the full effect, especially if somebody has put together an outfit that is intersting only when in motion.

[couyalair]

There are a number of videos on youtube showing men in skirts with interviews with both wearers and non-wearers. Any impact? I doubt it. It's much the same with this forum; only if you are already interested in going unbifurcated will you take a look at forums or videos.

None the less, getting a documentary on public tv would be great; the difficulty is getting the men together geographically -- we are really scattered over the globe, are we not? The next problem would be, having assembled a few men, to get them to agree which image they wish to project -- masculine, unisex or feminine, flamboyant or restrained. This was what went wrong when skirters gathered in New York a few years ago, with every look imaginable, from the sublime to the ridiculous. You can't expect the public to take us seriously if we don't show some agreement about our tastes and aims.
In this, I rather disagree with Carl (" having a role model would stifle creativity on the part of the individual... they will ape the notion thoughtlessly and without creativity. And then, snap, we have a uniform of denim skirts on the younger set"). But young people like having a uniform; they want to look alike. Let's accept uniformity as a transition stage (if it happens!), and hope that creativity will appear as they move on from teenage to maturity.

Martin

[couyalair]

Carl mentioned Jerome's project, an exhibition of masculine skirts in his area of France, which is not the most populated, so I wonder how many people will actually visit it. However the exhibits could be a good starting point for a filmed documentary, perhaps.

Martin

[crfriend]

The next problem would be, having assembled a few men, to get them to agree which image they wish to project -- masculine, unisex or feminine, flamboyant or restrained.

The geographical problem is well understood and can be, with effort and carbon-footprint -- overcome. However, you do sound a very forceful chord in your assertion if how the individuals involved might wish to project. I suspect that this is something that resonates any time where there is an opening and there are no formal rules on how to exploit it. Creativity can produce splendid things -- magical things; but it can also produce dissonance, friction, and conflict.

This was what went wrong when skirters gathered in New York a few years ago, with every look imaginable, from the sublime to the ridiculous. You can't expect the public to take us seriously if we don't show some agreement about our tastes and aims.

I interpret this as a stellar example of the "problem". To be honest, likely this was a "forced" interpretation based on a few key photographs that got worldwide exposure and, likely, set the notion of men wearing anything but trousers back a bit, but what long-distance goal doesn't have the occasional chuck-hole in the road thereto?

In this regard, if what I happen to wear is viewed as "too extreme" to portray then I'd happily back away from any participation, not that it'd make me alter my daily routine, mind. At risk of rambling a bit, it may be that I'm looking too far into the future -- into a time where we've managed to overcome the prejudice against one tube for guys and where it is up to the individual to figure out what works for him and doesn't at the same time make him look like a fool or worse.

In this, I rather disagree with Carl (" having a role model would stifle creativity on the part of the individual... they will ape the notion thoughtlessly and without creativity. And then, snap, we have a uniform of denim skirts on the younger set"). But young people like having a uniform; they want to look alike. Let's accept uniformity as a transition stage (if it happens!), and hope that creativity will appear as they move on from teenage to maturity.

I accept the criticism, and agree that getting the younger set to accept an "alternate uniform" would at least be a step on the road. I am cursed in that I recall most of what I felt and thought when I was in my late teens and early twenties -- right when I was trying mightily (sometimes successfully, sometimes not) to make my mark on the world, or to at least secure my little chunk of it. It was time that, aside from the occasional success at furthering my career, was categorically miserable. If that experience could be improved for the younger generation(s) then things might be much better; however, I don't really hold out much hope for that.

Personally, I'd be thrilled to see one of the younger guys at work show up in something other than jeans or shorts to work. I'd congratulate him on it. Unfortunately, I'd probably also scare him into the next time-zone.

[SkirtRevolution]

Has anyone thought about putting together a short doc and uploading it to youtube. I have noticed that about 99% of anything to do with men in skirts is always negative, with teenage boys wearing their girlfriend’s clothes and being laughed at or videos of crossdressers posing. You tube can be a powerful tool if something goes viral. It would be good if some of us with the skills could put some videos together and upload them to you tube. Most of the young people are on this site all the time, but there is nothing or very little there that promotes men in skirts and why men should wear skirts. In fact, what is on you tube only reinforces the prejudices against us. We need videos that would work to counter all of these negative videos.

[Dale]

Good!! Looks like I stirred up the hornets nest a little. I will start with why I don't think youtube is the best platform. The first is the time duration, the second is one normally gets to youtube video from a search engine. That means they are already seeking information concerning men in skirts. I have given the youtube some thought before ruling it out. I think we should be trying to reach as much of the general public as possible. Not that the Documentary Channel has the viewership of the major networks, but you don't get to it from a search engine. Not to say that youtube doesn't have its place, it does. More is needed.

I believe that with some teamwork on the part of the members of this forum, that we can work together toward a common goal, which is to gain exposure and acceptance by mainstream society toward men wearing skirts. Personally I am very comfortable as a man and I am not trying to present a feminine image. I am just a man in a skirt. That is the general impression I get from the majority of the posts I have read at skirtcafe. I also believe that there are many viewpoints on this topic. I agree with crfriend that the scope of the endeavor is large and that is another reason I don't think youtube is the ideal medium to try to present the subject. Just not enough time.

I also think that the more view points, the more people that present there stories, opinions, etc. the better. I don't even want to presume to speak for somebody else. They should do so themselves on camera, as shall I if we can pull this off. This would most likely have to be some sort of cooperative effort. I do not have the financial resources to do this without raising the funds. That will take some time. This may turn out to be a long term effort composed of many small prices put together over time. This is my hibernation season also. But I will work on the proposals to try to raise money to fund the project. We would have to coordinate using the internet when and where the video is shot. I see travel, and lodging to be the two major expenses to deal with, we are not all in the same part of the country. I hate to limit this to the U.S. members, but I just don't see haw logistically we can include the members on other parts of the planet, unfortunately.

A ten minute or so presentation on youtube will not be enough time to cover the topic in depth.

[phathack]

A ten minute or so presentation on youtube will not be enough time to cover the topic in depth.

Forget Depth, You will never cover a subject in depth on YouTube.
You need to think more like 60 seconds or less to get your message across.
No one is going to sit through a 10 minute video while you try to convince them men should consider wearing a skirt.

This is particularly true here in the states where a man wearing a skirt is immediately considered to be a cross dresser and gay. Such is life in Today's Homophobic States of America.

That said I like the idea of YouTube to get out our message.
The problem is what is that message and how do you present it in under a minute.

[Dale]

I have been off-line for a few days due to an electrical fire in my computer room.

60 seconds is twice the length of the average TV commercial. Having made several of those, I have an idea of how to present the topic, but I am still not certain if such a topic can be covered is such a brief interval of time. I still think that you tube, although useful, may not be the best place to cover the topic, although some presentation on you tube is essential. Most of what is there is not flattering to we male skirt wearers. Plus we need to fine tune precisely what message we want to convey in a population that assumes that a man in a skirt is gay, or a cross dresser, Especially in the U.S.; Europeans seem to be more open minded. Having lived on both continents I think I can say so.

The technical difficulties of you tube are non-existent, it does not have to be broadcast quality, and if we are talking a minute or so not at all involved, financially or otherwise. personally I think both avenues are worthy of pursuit. What do you all think?

[jimskirts]

Go with a series of 90 sec spots

Skirts... kilts....designers ...,kiltmakers....

[crfriend]

I have been off-line for a few days due to an electrical fire in my computer room.

Only several things may be considered more calamitous; I hope it was extinguished quickly and without lasting damage!

Whilst I will somewhat agree that the typical TV advert may be 30 seconds (save the "long format" "infommercial"), I rather confidently assert that getting the notion of "skirts for men" into thirty seconds is going to be a Herculean task, if not outright impossible. To my thought, the notion of changing the direction that men's "fashion" has been in for the past 200+ years is going to require actively engaging the mind of the viewer, and I rather suspect that's not possible in a "Super Bowl segment". That said, I would love to be proved wrong on the assertion!

I agree on the assertion that most of what's portrayed in the mass media is not favourable towards getting skirts for guys accepted, and I have written such a number of times. The problem is the "Media" (the establishment, not the technology) itself; portraying a bloke in a skirt as a joke sells more 'verts than one portraying him as a reasonable and responsible human being.

To "The Message": At this point in time, I do not believe that one coherent message can be defined. As I've come to see this, it's the age-old problem of "herding cats". Skirt-wearing guys seem to be a notorious lot of independent-thinkers -- all of whom likely hold different views of what might (or might not) work on guys. There have been some pretty spectacular schisms in the past, and that's likely the reason for the continued separation of the kilt-only crowd from those who might advocate for skirts in addition to kilts.

Importantly, I am NOT trying to throw water on the notion; I am merely stating that, given my experience, I do not happen to see any simple "solution".

[Uncle Al]

How does this scenerio sound

Shot 1 - Man in a skirt walks by 2 women talking with each other as they sip their coffee at
a side-walk bistro.

Shot 2 - Close-up of the women. 1st woman stops talking, pauses, then states -
'Hey, that guy is wearing a skirt'.
2nd woman says - 'Yes ! He sure looks 'hot & sexy' in that skirt, doesn't he!'
1st woman - Droolingly looks at the man and says - 'He sure does! I'd like to see more
men dressed like that!'
2nd woman smiles and nods her head in agreement.

Shot 3 - Wide shot of the women, dreamingly looking at the man as he continues to walk by them.

End

This should fill a 30 second spot with little or no problem.

What do you think

Uncle Al

[Big and Bashful]

Al,
That looks reasonable to me.

[kiltedBob]

I think that is a very positive idea... I wonder how many women are shy about expressing the views about men in decent skirts. They too may feel that others would think they (the viewing women) are gay or strange or something... Once the ice is really broken, it may become a lot easier for both genders to have a favorable oopinion of a man in a skirt... No expsure...no ice to break...! KiltedBob