OUR MARK

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
STEVIE
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OUR MARK

Post by STEVIE »

We seem to have inspired him
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/oth ... 975b&ei=13

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If this reaches out to women then I won't say any more.
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Ray
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by Ray »

Always inspiring.

Then you read the comments and you are reminded that this is the Daily Express Rage, a parallel ray to the vile Daily Wail. Both are home to huge groups of Brexit loving xenophobic misogynists, homophobes and racists.

Not all Express and Daily Nazi readers are like that - but most are, sadly. You won’t get any intelligent discussion on the comments pages of either.
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TSH
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Re: OUR MARK

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Yes, it is inspiring, but let's not forget that this is a man who went on record saying the LGBTQIA+ community made it "harder" for him to be a straight man wearing a skirt and high heels. He blamed a movement who were responsible for him being able to dress as he does without as much push-back as there would've been a decade or two prior. That's possibly one factor as to why the article has miserably negative reception.
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by rode_kater »

I think people use the word "blame" too much. In the context he said he thought it made it harder for him. That's not placing blame, in the same way that when saying that the rain made my clothes wet, that means I'm "blaming" the rain for my wet clothes. There is no fault here, so nothing to blame anyone for. The interviewer obviously didn't see it that way, as did many others.
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Myopic Bookworm
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by Myopic Bookworm »

rode_kater wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:27 pm I think people use the word "blame" too much. In the context he said he thought it made it harder for him. That's not placing blame
I agree: he's offering his analysis of his experience rather than negative criticism. The LGBetc community have made it easier to gain some level of tacit acceptance for men in skirts, but it may have become harder to wear skirts without being labelled as in some respect "queer"; though frankly, most people think that wearing skirts is pretty queer, in the ordinary sense of the word, and the emphasis has just shifted from people assuming that you're gay to people assuming that you're trans.
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Re: OUR MARK

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Myopic Bookworm wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:08 pmThe LGBetc community have made it easier to gain some level of tacit acceptance for men in skirts, but it may have become harder to wear skirts without being labelled as in some respect "queer"; though frankly, most people think that wearing skirts is pretty queer, in the ordinary sense of the word, and the emphasis has just shifted from people assuming that you're gay to people assuming that you're trans.
The upshot, then, is that the "normals" have lost, and the option of anything other than trousers is firmly off the table unless they are willing to get slapped with The Label. That simply will not happen in the general population.

It's bad enough that sometimes I just feel like giving up.
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denimini
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by denimini »

crfriend wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:48 pm The upshot, then, is that the "normals" have lost, and the option of anything other than trousers is firmly off the table unless they are willing to get slapped with The Label. That simply will not happen in the general population.
People do not often audibly apply labels so we will never know what label they have applied to us. We may hazzard a guess what label they may apply but they might very easily be labelling yourself as majestic, elegant and imposing.
I do my shopping in Broken Hill which holds an annual "Broken Heel" Drag Queen festival. I don't feel that people mistake me as a participant when I enter shops in a mini skirt. It really gets down to how we portray ourselves.
I don't think we should worry that what other people do will affect how we are perceived because we then become the persecutors.
crfriend wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:48 pm It's bad enough that sometimes I just feel like giving up.
That is not a good feeling. I don't feel too bad regarding our freedom to be ourselves but I certainly can empathise with those thoughts about other issues on the planet.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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crfriend
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Re: OUR MARK

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denimini wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:32 pm
crfriend wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:48 pm It's bad enough that sometimes I just feel like giving up.
That is not a good feeling. I don't feel too bad regarding our freedom to be ourselves but I certainly can empathise with those thoughts about other issues on the planet.
In that I was contemplating the "average Joe" and his potential to try a skirt on and "give it a whirl". My trajectory isn't going to change any, and I have no reason to change it.

Like your shopping trips to Broken Hill -- I suspect that you're well known enough to not be mistaken for one of the celebrants in the drag-queen festival. However, I am not convinced that the "average Joe" could say the same thing, and he's likely going to be fragile enough in his mindset that The Label will put him right off the idea.

That said, Men In Skirts really should try to distance themselves from The Label and be exemplars of what men can be. Like Alastair, Steve, and Neil in The Herald article: "But when they stand it becomes apparent. These are men in skirts.", and that has a very nice dramatic ring to it.
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STEVIE
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by STEVIE »

crfriend wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:34 pm That said, Men In Skirts really should try to distance themselves from The Label and be exemplars of what men can be. Like Alastair, Steve, and Neil in The Herald article: "But when they stand it becomes apparent. These are men in skirts.", and that has a very nice dramatic ring to it.
Thanks Carl and may I add that the feedback I've had on it has been quite mind blowing.
That link has also travelled quite a distance too, pity we can't get airmiles for it.
Steve.
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by Ralph »

[EDIT] And after writing all that, I see that Mr. Bookworm already said exactly the same thing only much more succinctly. Still, since I went to all the trouble of writing so many words I'll just leave them here :-)
TSH wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:57 amYes, it is inspiring, but let's not forget that this is a man who went on record saying the LGBTQIA+ community made it "harder" for him to be a straight man wearing a skirt and high heels. He blamed a movement who were responsible for him being able to dress as he does without as much push-back as there would've been a decade or two prior.
You have a valid point, but I also understand his concern. Because LGBTQ+ issues are so prominent now and it's almost mandatory to accept those groups without question, nowadays when a man dons a skirt or dress or any other traditionally "feminine" appearance he's also unquestioningly "accepted" as gay and/or trans. Sometimes even the gent's own denial is rejected.

Only recently have I started encountering the term "egg" used in the trans world to describe someone who has not yet "hatched" as trans, either through being unaware or in rebellion/denial against what everyone else sees as obviously trans behaviour.

For someone who is perfectly happy being a man but carves his own path in expressing his gender identity, that can be quite frustrating. I see the same thing happening to women, too. They fought over a century for freedom from restrictive gender roles: Wear skirts/dresses, look pretty, engage in only domestic and passive activities, etc. Now with identity politics so polarised, definitions of "male" and "female" are reverting to obsolete stereotypes. If I, as a man, wish to express myself as a woman I do it by wearing clothes and engaging in historically feminine behaviour - therefore a woman who fails to stay in her feminine lane is assumed to be a transman. The world of gender critical and radical feminists is on fire with this frustration.

I don't mean to get anyone wound up over this, and I don't mean to disparage the very real struggles that LGBTQ+ people encounter. But I also understand how the realm of cisgender identity and recognition can inadverently bump up against the realm of trans identity and recognition, creating friction that is painful for both groups.
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by pelmut »

Ralph wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:24 pm [...]Only recently have I started encountering the term "egg" used in the trans world to describe someone who has not yet "hatched" as trans, either through being unaware or in rebellion/denial against what everyone else sees as obviously trans behaviour.
Curious.  I've not heard that expression before and I am a member of an online trans group which is usually well clued-up on things like that.  The nearest term I have heard is 'In stealth', which can either mean someone who knows they are trans and is trying to hide it or someone who has fully transitioned and does not want anyone to know their past.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by moonshadow »

Ray wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:27 am Then you read the comments and you are reminded that this is the Daily Express Rage, a parallel ray to the vile Daily Wail. Both are home to huge groups of Brexit loving xenophobic misogynists, homophobes and racists.
I've got a message for those commentors......

Link

Hey... I picked it up from one of their kind... :twisted:

Time to give them a taste of their own medicine!
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denimini
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by denimini »

crfriend wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:34 pm However, I am not convinced that the "average Joe" could say the same thing, and he's likely going to be fragile enough in his mindset that The Label will put him right off the idea.
You are very kind hearted to be concerned about men with a fragile self esteem.
I don't think that we can help someone until they muster a bit of courage themselves and seek out support like this forum offers. It certainly helped me get over the initial hurdle which looked insurmountable until I got up onto my feet. I think that skirts are healthy for men to wear and to a greater extent the process of wearing them in public offers extra mental health to the wearers and the onlookers. I have recognised that in myself; learning to be confident to be myself and for others to learn to accept uniqueness and individuality. Sadly it took me 60 years to do this. I hope and believe that a lot of young people are demanding acceptance nowadays.

We certainly can not help by trying to prevent Labels being created nor people using them but we can help people learn not to worry about Labels. The only Label anyone should have is their name.

Again, thanks for your efforts keeping this forum going. This is what helps.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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crfriend
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Re: OUR MARK

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denimini wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:38 amYou are very kind hearted to be concerned about men with a fragile self esteem.
Why am I this way? It's because for many years I had a very fragile sense of self-esteem. It took decades, a whole lot of hurt and pain, getting into a long-term stable relationship, and learning that by being active in the world I actually have the power to change it. I was, in a way, fortunate that I learned that after about four decades, because that's earlier than a lot of folks do. So, I'd like to help others who are stuck in the same situation.
We certainly can not help by trying to prevent Labels being created nor people using them but we can help people learn not to worry about Labels. The only Label anyone should have is their name.
We cannot stop people from applying labels to others; that's folly. However, we can do everything within our power to attempt to break the back of the notion that any man who dons a skirt is "less than a man" or somehow "broken". And we do that with our words and deeds -- every day, just by being us
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Re: OUR MARK

Post by familyman34 »

denimini wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:38 am I think that skirts are healthy for men to wear and to a greater extent the process of wearing them in public offers extra mental health to the wearers and the onlookers. I have recognised that in myself; learning to be confident to be myself and for others to learn to accept uniqueness and individuality.

Again, thanks for your efforts keeping this forum going. This is what helps.
Both sentiments with which I heartily agree!
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