Tennessee Senate Bill 3

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

Post by ScotL »

moonshadow wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:19 am Well well well...

Turns out old big shot governor Bill Big Time Ban It Lee was....wad..... wait for it....

A female impersonator back in 1977....

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/p ... 951107007/

Ain't that like a southern Christian politician....?

Do as I say, not as I do!
I’m not sure he was a female impersonator or drag performer as much as it looks like he just wore women’s clothes on a day when the women wore mens clothing. A gag “Opposite Day” kind of a day for God knows what reason. I think the difference is he did it as a joke and is fighting drag performers who do it as a profession.

Still doesn’t make the draconic legislation whereby the government know tells us what we can and cannot wear.

This is the thing that I never get. The same people legislating against drag performers and pushing for government to regulate what people can wear also bemoan big government interfering into the their lives. They hate government telling them what they can and cannot do.

This to me is cherry-picking against certain people and not legislating against clothing choices.

There is something called reaction formation though that seems always rears it’s ugly head in politics. The idea that someone who harbors certain tendencies that upset them become overly vocal against those tendencies to assuage the guilt they feel over having such tendencies. Think of the closeted gay politician who is staunchly against gay marriage.

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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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moonshadow wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:19 am Well well well...

Turns out old big shot governor Bill Big Time Ban It Lee was....wad..... wait for it....

A female impersonator back in 1977....
Now just hold it a minute there - that's just a “lighthearted tradition”, how dare anyone conflate his earlier behavior with what’s happening today. Do as he says - not as he has done.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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One thing I have definitely observed in my life is when you have people who are very overbearing, you will often find they are also hypocritical.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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Freedomforall wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 3:16 am One thing I have definitely observed in my life is when you have people who are very overbearing, you will often find they are also hypocritical.
Excellent observation! You may even be suggesting that those who are exaggeratively outraged against something harbor secret desires for the target of their inflated ire.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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This nonsense about drag queens and "grooming" is so much crapola, I can smell it from here. Personally speaking, I'd be more afraid to leave kids alone with priests than I would men who dress up like women.
I don't want to LOOK like a woman, I just want to DRESS like a woman.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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JeffB1959 wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:53 am This nonsense about drag queens and "grooming" is so much crapola, I can smell it from here. Personally speaking, I'd be more afraid to leave kids alone with priests than I would men who dress up like women.
Lee has signed it and it shall become the law July 1st 2023. See if I ever spend another dime in that cursed state.

Next up... the elimination of transgender women/girls, then, it's our turn.

I don't know what the hell is happening to my country. What of freedom now?

F--k a drag law.
DSC_0070.JPG
This will soon be illegal, a drag queen and king on a public street in Tennessee...

ooooohh! Watch out! Better hide the little children's eyes! Oh, SUCH PERVERSION!

Give me a break....

I want to hear from the Republican "conservative" voters on this board... where is the justice in this? Tell me, what is SO HORRIBLE about the photo above?
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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This is what it's going to take to end this nonsense:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... 234690309/

They obviously took no risks - the ban doesn't go into effect yet. Also, I think the guy second to the left was like, "I'm just going to put in minimal effort".

But I do think it'll take someone like Harry Styles to perform in the state, then get charged/arrested (is that even possible) and have it go all the way to the Supreme court, where... I don't know what will happen.

I also don't like equating clothing choices to political views, because it will further divide everyone, so performances like this can hurt our cause because people will just start to associate MIS with political statements.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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Coder wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:56 am I also don't like equating clothing choices to political views, because it will further divide everyone, so performances like this can hurt our cause because people will just start to associate MIS with political statements.
I mean this with all respect....

For several years I have watched as regular members in good standing increase the width of the line between "us" [male skirt wearers] and "them" [the LGBTQ+ community in general]. I have posted several articles, videos, all to little avail. I have sounded off several times about the liberty that's at stake when we don't align ourselves. I will say it again, I UNDERSTAND that most members here are not trans, do not consider themselves crossdressers, and YES, I realize there is a difference between a "drag queen" vs a transgender woman vs a man in a skirt... all well and good... YES. BUT....

As I have been saying time and time and time and time again, the people who vote for the people who pass these laws do indeed put us all int he same queer bucket.

I'm going to ask you, what is "our cause"? I understand it's for "men to wear skirts", but lets dig deeper, doesn't it really come down "everyone is free to be their authentic selves provided it brings no harm unto others?", because if that's not at the core of "our cause", then I'm not sure I want to be associated with "our cause" anymore. To that, this is why I stand with the drag community, despite not being a drag queen. It's why I stand with transgender women despite not being a transgender woman. It's the same reason I stand with Muslims and Atheist despite being neither, I even stand with oppressed Christians, Mormons, etc, and provided they can all at the very least tolerate each others RIGHT TO EXIST even if they have to AGREE TO DISAGREE on theology, then yes, I stand with them too. It's why I stand with racial minorities despite being white, why I stand with women despite being a man, In short, my cause is FREEDOM FOR ALL. Hell, I'll even stand with Republicans and Evangelicals provided they keep their grubby little hands off my rights! They are certainly free to hold whatever opinions they want. If they want to think trans-women and men in skirts are an abomination? I'm okay with that.. If they want to preach it in their churches? Fine with that too! That's their right AND I RESPECT IT. Just DON'T BE MEDDLING IN MY BUSINESS!

And again I'll shout it into the wind: If they are not free... WE. ARE. NOT. FREE. EITHER.

I'm not perfect, yes I can be a hypocrite like everyone else, and I've had my share of cognitive dissonance, and internal conflict regarding a lot of issues floating around. I don't have all the answers, and I make plenty of mistakes but I still think it's in everyone's interest to allow each of us as individuals in this society to seek our answers, make our mistakes, and learn from them.

UNITED WE STAND!

THAT is MY CAUSE. What's yours?
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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moonshadow wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:28 pm I'm going to ask you, what is "our cause"? I understand it's for "men to wear skirts", but lets dig deeper, doesn't it really come down "everyone is free to be their authentic selves provided it brings no harm unto others?", because if that's not at the core of "our cause", then I'm not sure I want to be associated with "our cause" anymore.
Thats what I mean - but let me clarify.

When I say "political" I'm talking about knee-jerk-reaction to "whatever the right does the left does opposite" and vice-versa. I'm also not saying "every side is correct". I'm tired of the tribe mentality, people joining a "tribe" and following a "tribe" because what the "tribe" does is what the "tribe" does. Just look at boycotts of states, MTG wanting states to secede from the union, DC wanting statehood, etc... All of this is just people who refuse to act like adults, talk to one another, and get along.

I just want to be left alone to do my thing. I don't wear any pins, badges, etc... because I precisely don't align myself with anyone - just myself, my religion (which I keep to myself) and I wish others would do the same. I don't want my skirting or whatever to be seen as anything other than a clothing choice. I'm just sick and tired of it all.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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Coder wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:54 pm Thats what I mean - but let me clarify.

When I say "political" I'm talking about knee-jerk-reaction to "whatever the right does the left does opposite" and vice-versa. I'm also not saying "every side is correct". I'm tired of the tribe mentality, people joining a "tribe" and following a "tribe" because what the "tribe" does is what the "tribe" does. Just look at boycotts of states, MTG wanting states to secede from the union, DC wanting statehood, etc... All of this is just people who refuse to act like adults, talk to one another, and get along.

I just want to be left alone to do my thing. I don't wear any pins, badges, etc... because I precisely don't align myself with anyone - just myself, my religion (which I keep to myself) and I wish others would do the same. I don't want my skirting or whatever to be seen as anything other than a clothing choice. I'm just sick and tired of it all.
I understand what you're saying. And you certainly have every right to remain silent and not get involved. And for what it's worth, I totally get it- I've been burned by people on both political extremes, and to be fair, I think I've been done the most dirty by people who are known to align themselves with "the left". I too am reluctant to stick my neck out too far for a community or "tribe" that may very well leave me high and dry when the moment of truth comes.

If I should get arrested for wearing a feminine skirt across the state line after July 1st, will the LBGTQ+ community have my back? It's hard to say. I guess some probably will, but are they going to help me find a job after I lose mine for being arrested? Outlook not so good. The current PRIDE event in Tri-Cities Tennessee seems to already be taking a rhetoric of complying with state law... in other words, there is a good chance there will be no drag queens in the Johnson City TN pride event this year. I'm inclined to attempt to light a fire under the local PRIDE organizers... "where the fun in that?" I might add. After all, drag queens and crossdressers certainly did risk arrest back in the 60's, yet despite that, they persisted. But they might turn to me and say "are YOU willing to go out in drag Andrea?"

Honestly... if I knew for sure the community would have my back, all the way through hell and back then I might be inclined to say "yes". But actual experience paints a different picture. As Carl points out in the West Virginia thread, when you get right down it it, I too am just an old boring white guy, and far too often when people "say" they're your friends and they have you back, those people scatter like cockroaches when the authoritarian boot hits the ground.

I also have mixed feelings about aligning myself too tightly with a community where such a high percentage view Communism favorably. In fact, I've been shunned by many LGBTQ+ groups online for speaking out in support of more "Libertarian" ideals and holding a suspect opinion of Communism. So yes, I too don't "wear pins" for the most part, aside from a simple nonbinary bracelet I wear for the sole purpose of shouting out to other enby's I may happen upon. But I don't go "gung ho" into it, mainly because my thoughts on myself being "nonbinary" is more of a spiritual conviction rather than what we would consider a "gender identity" in the modern sense of the word. In other words, it has less to do with what's in my head [my brain] and more to do with what's in my soul. Thus, I have effectively mixed my own sense of "gender" with my spirituality. Frankly, this is not a sentiment shared by many people in the trans/enby community. In fact, I have yet to meet or talk to anyone else whatsoever that views gender in the same light I do.

Thus... I mostly stand alone. BUT, I might get a chance to take my old "Declaration of Religious Freedom" out for a stroll in an actual court of law someday... 8) :wink:

Bonus note: I guess it does no good to "boycott" Tennessee. It seems virtually every "red"state is doing this, and I even suspect Virginia to follow suit in the coming years as we are currently in a "red shift". New England and the West Coast are a bit of a drive just for groceries or weekend outings. So I guess life goes on... until it doesn't.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

Post by crfriend »

One other point might be of use here, and it's an old military adage: "The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend."

Individuals and states have fallen prey to this when they don't pay attention to the landscape, frequently with disastrous results.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

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moonshadow wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:05 am [...]
Next up... the elimination of transgender women/girls, then, it's our turn.
I'm sorry to say I warned you
by pelmut » 30 Jun 2020, 14:58
I think we are in danger of losing our reasons:

Why were public toilets built? To offer an alternative to the problem of people urinating and defecating in public places. They were not built as refuges for women being abused by men and they offer no safety in that respect; neither were they built to allow women to adjust their makeup or hold private conversations. By concentrating on imaginary fears about something that has never happened, the anti-trans lobby is intent on preventing toilets being used for their primary purpose by one section of society.

If they succeed in forcing transpeople to stay at home because they daren't use a toilet, these hate-peddlers will then turn their attention to something else -- and it could be men in skirts. The reason you are wearing a skirt won't matter any more; mothers will be told it is because you are a child molester, wives will be told it is because ther husbands are becoming women and men in skirts will be banned from public places because men (in trousers) have been known to 'flash' at women.

It might sound ridiculous now, but these haters have already succeeded in getting a British minister to publish a report which is completely contrary to her own department's two-year-long inquiry into transgender inequalty based on evidence from 26 expert witness and over 200 written submissions. Human Rights Watch has contacted the Prime Minister with their concerns about it. The hate lobby now appears to be well-financed and organised, submitting hundreds of bogus responses to any appeal for information; it has grown very quickly from the few sad individuals who started it.

This is the kind of attention, currently focussed on transpeople, that men in skirts could do without.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

Post by Uncle Al »

I tried to quote a portion of this article but, after reading my trimmed quote,
I realized that quite a bit of information, and view point, would be missing.

Thus the entire article follows ....
Rolling Stone Magazine wrote:Vandoliers Play Tennessee Concert in Dresses to Protest State’s New Drag Bill "What is happening in Tennessee is a blatant attack on a marginalized class," says Josh Fleming, singer for the Texas country-punk band.
Image
Vandoliers — Dustin Fleming, Mark Moncrieff, Joshua Fleming, Travis Curry, Cory Graves, and Trey Alfaro — pose in front of the Shed in Maryville, Tennessee, where the group performed in drag. *by Rachel Dodd*
Texas country-punk band Vandoliers are standing in solidarity with drag performers and the LGBTQ+ community. On Thursday night, the group performed their set at the Shed in Maryville, Tennessee, with all six of its members wearing dresses in protest of the state’s newly enacted law on public drag performance.

“**** a drag bill,” they wrote in an Instagram post. “Gonna auction off the dresses we wore onstage in Tennessee tonight and donate the money to a couple of LGBTQ charities in this state.”

Suffice it to say, the heavily tattooed, impressively hairy group may not be making a Drag Race runway debut anytime soon (or maybe they will, who knows!), but the image of them in their show wear suggests they came ready to party and kick a little homophobic ass.

“As a band our core mission has always been to be a positive force of energy,” singer Joshua Fleming tells Rolling Stone. “What is happening in Tennessee is a blatant attack on a marginalized class, and we wanted to show all of our friends and fans in the LGBTQIA+ community our unwavering love and support. We see you, we stand with you, and we’ll fight alongside you. Vandoliers is for everyone. Forever.”

Tennessee’s new bill, adopted by the legislature and signed by Governor Bill Lee this week, aims to re-classify some drag performance as “adult cabaret” that violates obscenity laws by being “harmful to minors.” Performances will supposedly be restricted in public spaces or in places where children might see the act, though just how much remains unclear. Opponents of the bill are promising legal action.

The law goes into effect on July 1, shortly after Nashville Pride takes over the Bicentennial Mall in downtown. Some legal professionals have questioned whether it can actually be enforced or if it’s just designed to scare people. Artists including Kacey Musgraves and Cassadee Pope have voiced their opposition to the law, and a group of Tennessee businesses that includes Sony Music Nashville, Red Light Management, and Warner Music Nashville all signed a letter urging Lee not to sign the bill.

Tennessee also has a group of related bills moving through the legislature that are aimed at the trans community, specifically with regard to gender-affirming healthcare for youth, participation in school sports, and self-identification on official IDs.

Vandoliers recently returned from the Outlaw Country Cruise 7, where they performed at sea alongside Lucinda Williams, Steve Earle, the Mavericks, and fellow Texan Joshua Ray Walker, with whom they’re currently on tour. Vandoliers released their self-titled fourth album in August 2022, with standouts like the blistering “Bless Your Drunken Heart” and the Covid-era anthem “Every Saturday Night.” They also dropped a spiky cover of the Proclaimers’ “I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)” in 2022. Vandoliers and Joshua Ray Walker will play Atlanta’s Center Stage on Friday night and New York’s Brooklyn Made on March 8.
The writer of this article used an attention grabbing line " where the group performed in drag".

Looking at the picture, I DON'T SEE A DRAG PERFORMANCE :!:
(The bias of the 'news media' is showing its colors. The writer needs to get a life :!: )

The Band is doing something positive - Per Josh Fleming, of the band, “Gonna auction off the dresses
we wore onstage in Tennessee tonight and donate the money to a couple of LGBTQ charities in this state.”

What a way to raise money for charities :D

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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

Post by Ray »

Moon,

I love your post about what our cause is.

I totally get the bit about being authentic, and supporting others who wish to do the same. I agree wholeheartedly with your comments.
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Re: Tennessee Senate Bill 3

Post by ScotL »

Coder wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:56 am This is what it's going to take to end this nonsense:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... 234690309/

They obviously took no risks - the ban doesn't go into effect yet. Also, I think the guy second to the left was like, "I'm just going to put in minimal effort".

But I do think it'll take someone like Harry Styles to perform in the state, then get charged/arrested (is that even possible) and have it go all the way to the Supreme court, where... I don't know what will happen.

I also don't like equating clothing choices to political views, because it will further divide everyone, so performances like this can hurt our cause because people will just start to associate MIS with political statements.
I like wearing a skirt as a man. Not as a drag performer. Not as a political activist. But as a man minding my own damn business wearing what I want cause I’m free to do so. A silent protest that is most effective cause I’m not pushing an agenda.

I have two big opportunities to wear a skirt openly in the upcoming week. This solidified my resolve to do so. As a man. No other reason then I want to
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