NY Post: Clothing brands’ push for gender inclusive clothing ripped as ‘marketing ploy,’ ‘confusing to children’

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
STEVIE
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Re: NY Post: Clothing brands’ push for gender inclusive clothing ripped as ‘marketing ploy,’ ‘confusing to children’

Post by STEVIE »

SkirtsDad wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:13 pm
degendering clothing shops doesn't break down stereotypes.
In this respect, one must differentiate between physical and on-line retailing.
On-line, the buyer makes the purchase anonymously, in secrecy unless they choose otherwise.
No challenge, no breakdown, Status Quo goes on.
In the real world, things are even more conservative. Big Retail Honcho is looking for ways to increase his income and he does a bit of Market Research.
He discovers that in his customer demographic data that the majority of shoppers would prefer that his policy of separating male and female fashion lines remain unchanged. There is an indication that this may alienate a small segment of the customer base but their effect on turnover is negligible.
Cost/benefit analysis shows that change should only be considered in the longer term with a watching brief set to monitor other associated trends which will influence demand patterns.
Society calls the shots, change Joe Public and the shops will follow. Retailers exploit attitudes, stereotypes and just about every other human weakness but they sure as hell don't create them. They don't have to, we do it all too effectively all by ourselves. Change will only happen when WE make it so and not a moment sooner.
Can anyone prove me wrong and not just hypothetically either?
Steve.
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Re: NY Post: Clothing brands’ push for gender inclusive clothing ripped as ‘marketing ploy,’ ‘confusing to children’

Post by rode_kater »

STEVIE wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:14 am
In this respect, one must differentiate between physical and on-line retailing.
Degendering online is super easy. You can make a skirts/dresses section in under men's clothes with the same stuff (like Adidas did). It's not like a physical store where you have to care about physical placement.

For people that care about the gender label, everyone is happy. For people who don't care, it makes no difference.
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Re: NY Post: Clothing brands’ push for gender inclusive clothing ripped as ‘marketing ploy,’ ‘confusing to children’

Post by moonshadow »

I think we're putting to much emphasis on degendering clothing sections in stores, or even the clothing articles themselves.

If a guy wants to wear a feminine garment bad enough... he'll find a way to make it happen, either online or otherwise.

If you wanna be free, you gotta earn it. You can't just expect it to be handed to you. There are no physical barriers prohibiting a male from shopping the female section, just his own fears. Throughout history countless people risked everything for the freedoms many of us take for granted today. Between racial matters, gender discrimination, religious matters, cultural matters, the list goes on. These people would stand up against all odds, often times facing economic consequences, physical harassment, jail/prison time, often times even death! ...

... and we can't manage to muster up the courage to visit the other side of a store for the clothing we desire...?

..man, go on somewhere with that. Is that what it means to be a "man"?... a chicken sh!t? If that's what it means to be a "man", I'm ashamed.

People need to get salty. Everywhere I look, I see these various special interest groups trying to make all these "safe spaces", bending over backward, making as little noise as possible to coax people out of their shells... we need to stop asking society for permission to be ourselves. Stand up and FIGHT! Remember what those original PRIDE events were like? This was actually back in the day when you could face real consequences for being gay or transgender, those people got out there and paraded down the street, knowing full well the TV news cameras would be there, their face would be broadcast all over, and they may lose their jobs, their families, maybe even their freedom, but there they were nevertheless... PROUD. Damned straight! (pardon the pun :lol: )

No safe spaces! STOP ASKING FOR PERMISSION! JUST DO IT!
It's not a big deal unless you make it one.
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Re: NY Post: Clothing brands’ push for gender inclusive clothing ripped as ‘marketing ploy,’ ‘confusing to children’

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:14 pm
..man, go on somewhere with that. Is that what it means to be a "man"?... a chicken sh!t? If that's what it means to be a "man", I'm ashamed.

People need to get salty.
Dang, somebody swallowed a hornet! Season to taste!

Seriously, the brass ring is ours for the taking if we can work up the courage to reach for it. Might there be pushback or even repercussions? Perhaps. Change is always fraught with challenge; we just need to push through that. This is one scenario where it really is possible for everybody to "win".
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Re: NY Post: Clothing brands’ push for gender inclusive clothing ripped as ‘marketing ploy,’ ‘confusing to children’

Post by Coder »

moonshadow wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:14 pm
I think we're putting to much emphasis on degendering clothing sections in stores, or even the clothing articles themselves.

If a guy wants to wear a feminine garment bad enough... he'll find a way to make it happen, either online or otherwise.
moonshadow wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:14 pm
No safe spaces! STOP ASKING FOR PERMISSION! JUST DO IT!
Everything you said is spot on. Not just what I quoted, but those were what resonated the most.

Here's where I fight myself on a daily basis:

The only exception I have is I don't really want masculine of feminine clothes - I don't want my gender/sex to play a role in what I wear. I want to mix things up. Men don't have that kind of freedom nowadays to expirement, though it is loosening up. I see these retail changes as giving guys like us "permission" to have fun, try different things. I don't want people to think I have a mental illness, retail accommodating an expanded wardrobe moves the needle.

What I just wrote is how I operate on a daily basis, but I know it is incorrect. So far no one has challenged me, laughed (well, I think I've gotten a few smirks) or even remarked "you should be more normal". But I know that I don't need permission and the world could care not at all for what I wear, so long as I am courteous to one another. I don't need Levi's to sell a 501 skirt for men.
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Re: NY Post: Clothing brands’ push for gender inclusive clothing ripped as ‘marketing ploy,’ ‘confusing to children’

Post by crfriend »

Coder wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:38 pm
Here's where I fight myself on a daily basis:

The only exception I have is I don't really want masculine of feminine clothes - I don't want my gender/sex to play a role in what I wear. I want to mix things up. Men don't have that kind of freedom nowadays to expirement, though it is loosening up. I see these retail changes as giving guys like us "permission" to have fun, try different things. I don't want people to think I have a mental illness, retail accommodating an expanded wardrobe moves the needle.

What I just wrote is how I operate on a daily basis, but I know it is incorrect.
My suspicion here is that your emotions and intellect are "out of sync" and you're feeling the discord between the two. Before you can really move on, that conflict will need to be resolved so you can function as one complete unit instead of two that happen to disagree with each other. This might mean that one exerts utter dominance over the other, but a more subtle way is to gently coax the two into an understanding that the whole is more than the sum of the parts.

I'm quite fortunate in that my intellect and emotions function quite nicely as a team and play very well together. I also suspect that I am not "normal" in this regard, to which I say, "So what."
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
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