The Guardian Nigeria: Masculinity And The Skirt Wave

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
User avatar
Jim
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1551
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:39 am
Location: Northern Illinois, USA

Re: The Guardian Nigeria: Masculinity And The Skirt Wave

Post by Jim »

Myopic Bookworm wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:52 pm
moonshadow wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:27 pm No capitalism isn't perfect, but neither is the human species. If we were perfect then communism would work.
I have caused consternation in the past by pointing out that full-on communism is the ideal Christian form of society, but does rather require everyone to be a virtuous Christian first: see Acts 2:44 "all those having believed were together the same, and having all things in common", Acts 4:32,35 "No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they owned ... There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold ... and it was distributed to each as any had need."
Good point. And Christian groups still try this from time to time with varying degrees of success. Too often, just as in the secular version, leaders become too powerful. It really takes a transformed heart and mind of the leadership and a large majority for it to work, it seems. If we love our neighbors as ourselves, then whose property something is is irrelevant.
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 6994
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Warm Beach, Washington
Contact:

Re: The Guardian Nigeria: Masculinity And The Skirt Wave

Post by moonshadow »

Jim wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:49 pm
Myopic Bookworm wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:52 pm
moonshadow wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:27 pm No capitalism isn't perfect, but neither is the human species. If we were perfect then communism would work.
I have caused consternation in the past by pointing out that full-on communism is the ideal Christian form of society, but does rather require everyone to be a virtuous Christian first: see Acts 2:44 "all those having believed were together the same, and having all things in common", Acts 4:32,35 "No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they owned ... There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold ... and it was distributed to each as any had need."
Good point. And Christian groups still try this from time to time with varying degrees of success. Too often, just as in the secular version, leaders become too powerful. It really takes a transformed heart and mind of the leadership and a large majority for it to work, it seems. If we love our neighbors as ourselves, then whose property something is is irrelevant.
I too have thought about that, and shared my thoughts much to the same reaction you describe BW.

Of course, the Christian religion has had 2,000 years to become thoroughly corrupted. This is not to say that there aren't good folks out there, there certainly are. And these are the people to you may find working quietly behind the scenes, making the world a better place. Deep down in my heart, I have a "communal" spirit I suppose. I make my paycheck on my day job, but in everything I do on my own time, I always volunteer. I won't go into a lot of detail on that because I don't like to boast about the things I do for no pay (I don't want it to become vanity). I will say however that I actually really enjoy working. I enjoy staying busy, tinkering, and whatnot. I can't say that I enjoy being called out at 2am to work on bread ovens, but during normal [waking] hours I generally don't mind answering the call. I also really enjoy working around the house, and one of the things I didn't like about renting is there wasn't enough for me to do. Despite my "communal spirit", I also have a strong independent streak too. While I don't mind helping out others, I also strive to be as self reliant as possible.

At the end of the day, I'm a firm believer that we work for our bread, and we help one another as best we can.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
pelmut
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:36 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: The Guardian Nigeria: Masculinity And The Skirt Wave

Post by pelmut »

Myopic Bookworm wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:52 pm ... and it was distributed to each as any had need."
That presupposes there is enough to go around and it also raises the requirement for careful distinction between need and wish (and who decides that?).
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 6994
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Warm Beach, Washington
Contact:

Re: The Guardian Nigeria: Masculinity And The Skirt Wave

Post by moonshadow »

pelmut wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:32 am
Myopic Bookworm wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:52 pm ... and it was distributed to each as any had need."
That presupposes there is enough to go around and it also raises the requirement for careful distinction between need and wish (and who decides that?).
Ah, and that's where things [with communism] start to run off the rails. Consider in the hypothetical heavenly afterlife, there are no physical needs, only the needs of the soul, and that need is to be with God, which is already established in heaven.

Here in the land of mortals, we have physical material needs, food, shelter, etc.

However, despite the human brain being incapable of the ideals of communism, that doesn't mean we can't endeavor towards charitable giving, community building, helping our neighbors, striving for peace, and loving one another.

And thankfully there seems to be enough of that in the world so that we should thrive (for the most part), despite the occasional setback.

Humans are a screwed up lot for sure, but we have the ability to love and to empathize. Long live those abilities! Our survival as a species certainly depends on it.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
rode_kater
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 836
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:46 pm

Re: The Guardian Nigeria: Masculinity And The Skirt Wave

Post by rode_kater »

pelmut wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:32 am
Myopic Bookworm wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:52 pm ... and it was distributed to each as any had need."
That presupposes there is enough to go around and it also raises the requirement for careful distinction between need and wish (and who decides that?).
If there is one thing I'd like humanity to eventually reach it's the post-scarcity society. For this we need at least two of the following three: fusion (and therefore unlimited) power, nanofactories or strong AI. Any two will probably give you the third. Once you no longer have a scarcity of basic goods and services, capitalism becomes rather irrelevant. Capitalism is built around making optimal use of scarce resources and if they're not scarce, making them scarce.
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
Posts: 14432
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)
Contact:

Re: The Guardian Nigeria: Masculinity And The Skirt Wave

Post by crfriend »

rode_kater wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:39 pmCapitalism is built around making optimal use of scarce resources and if they're not scarce, making them scarce.
Thus we have an ever-tightening spiral which will eventually implode.

Pure -- or even laissez-faire -- capitalism is simply not sustainable because of its predatory nature. That's why pretty much every civilised country on the planet has settled on a blend of socialism and capitalism -- with the former moderating the predatory nature of the latter.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Dust
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: The Guardian Nigeria: Masculinity And The Skirt Wave

Post by Dust »

I always used to think that any system (economic, governmental, etc.) would work with perfect people. The reason we have governments is to keep things from going awry with imperfect people.

There are what could be dubbed "Christian communes" today, we just call them monasteries, convents, etc. They work in part because everyone there is there voluntarily, and has been vetted. There is trust that those admitted aren't there to "game the system" and no one is there against their will, born into it, or forced to labor there on behalf of others.

Both modern monastics and early Christians chose to give up everything to be a part of that community, and are motivated both to help others, and to see the community thrive, which takes a lot of effort and faith. Stick a bunch of folks in there who don't want to put in that effort and don't have faith in what the community is about, and you wind up having to motivate them other ways. That is where secular communism always gets ugly...
Post Reply