Virgin updates uniform policy

[crfriend]

(a) ...if I understand you correctly, I think your "class" is under some social pressure, because although being straight is accepted, there is increasing negative reaction to being "heteronormative", though it is a popular position among the unthinking masses, because it effortlessly re-asserts the privilege of the majority. And those who are heteronormative are,

"Straight, hetero-normative" sounds slightly better then "boring straight guy". And it seemed that the point of "style choice" was lost somewhere in translation as it always does. A skirt for me is simply that -- a style choice -- it is not a signifier of anything, and certainly nothing of a sexual nature. My behaviour does not change when I'm wearing a skirt, my voice does not change, I do not act effeminate, my demeanour does not change. Why should I have to label myself as trans-* simply to exercise a style choice?

On the notion of straight guys being "under pressure", they have been for decades, first by the radical feminists who managed to get us branded as monsters by repeated use of the hateful term "[rad-fem hate-speech redacted]", our legal status has been reduced to that of being little more than wallets, sperm-donors, and, increasingly, prisoners.

[TSH]

You reap what you sow. People who are standoffish and hate interacting with others will see that other people treat them the same way. Breeds discontent.

I feel as though this is directly at me, because I don't go out of my way to make people realize that I'm introverted and my disorder makes me anxious around others after a certain period of time. I'm just subtle about it. I suppose I haven't done a good job explaining myself. I don't care much to be around people, but I still try to make the ones I do care about happy, and I generally don't want my standoffish behavior to offend anyone, regardless how I feel at a particular moment.

Outside of criminality, in all disputes, both sides need to improve. Perhaps you also need to see the good that happens right in front of you. I hope you continue to grow and keep your anger at bay.

I do, but that doesn't mean I should ignore the awfulness that's around me, either. I'm still trust in the process that I'll learn and mature more as I get older.

[rode_kater]

A skirt for me is simply that -- a style choice -- it is not a signifier of anything, and certainly nothing of a sexual nature. My behaviour does not change when I'm wearing a skirt, my voice does not change, I do not act effeminate, my demeanour does not change. Why should I have to label myself as trans-* simply to exercise a style choice?

I think you're reading too much into this. The fact that the trans-community has managed to get a policy changed for their benefit does not mean you have to be trans to take advantage of it. The people who know you know you're not trans. And the people who don't know you, well, does it matter what they think?

[crfriend]

The fact that the trans-community has managed to get a policy changed for their benefit does not mean you have to be trans to take advantage of it. The people who know you know you're not trans. And the people who don't know you, well, does it matter what they think?

On one, we shall see how it pans out in practise, because things usually happen very differently in practise than they do in theory. Yes, in theory, the new rule is "inclusive"; I strongly suspect that in practise it will be required that one declares -- one way or another -- that "he's" trans-* (women, of course, won't need to). Theory and practise are two very, very different animals.

On the others, you are correct. I do not necessarily care about what those who don't know me think -- except in situations like job interviews, potential opportunities for dating, and a whole lot of other scenarii where first impressions count for vastly more than they should.

[Coder]

British Airways reviews uniforms after Virgin lets male pilots wear skirts
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... -skirts%2F

A spokesman for BA said: “At British Airways we're committed to an inclusive working environment and as part of that, we're reviewing our uniform policy and will update our colleagues when the review is complete.”

Sources at BA cautioned that any potential uniform changes may not be as radical as those brought in by Virgin Atlantic, which earlier this year also became the first major global airline to allow on-board staff to display tattoos.

This is kind of a generic article, and I get the sense this is BA trying to be "hip" like the cool kids.

[crfriend]

British Airways reviews uniforms after Virgin lets male pilots wear skirts
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... -skirts%2F

I rather doubt that any pilot, no matter what sex/gender/whatever would wear a skirt in a cockpit. The flight controls just aren't conducive to it. Contemplate, for a moment, what it means when somebody pulls the yoke back to climb. The stem of the thing has to go somewhere, and if there's a skirt in the way...

This is kind of a generic article, and I get the sense this is BA trying to be "hip" like the cool kids.

Yep. Hopping on the bandwagon.

[moonshadow]

British Airways reviews uniforms after Virgin lets male pilots wear skirts
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... -skirts%2F

A spokesman for BA said: “At British Airways we're committed to an inclusive working environment and as part of that, we're reviewing our uniform policy and will update our colleagues when the review is complete.”

Sources at BA cautioned that any potential uniform changes may not be as radical as those brought in by Virgin Atlantic, which earlier this year also became the first major global airline to allow on-board staff to display tattoos.

This is kind of a generic article, and I get the sense this is BA trying to be "hip" like the cool kids.

I'm just thinking about those poor souls that commented that they will no longer be flying Virgin.... when all the other airlines follow suit, I guess they are going to have to swim across the Atlantic!

Poor little thangs.... having to share space with those mean scarry old trans people! Humph! Watch them cross their arms and pout like little children!

[Elisabetta]

[moonshadow]

I wouldn't sniff bigots... they are subject to burn nose hairs and cause fits of sneezing.

[Elisabetta]

I wouldn't sniff bigots... they are subject to burn nose hairs and cause fits of sneezing.

It's a joke from Hocus Pocus

[Uncle Al]

<snip>I rather doubt that any pilot, no matter what sex/gender/whatever would wear a skirt in a cockpit. The flight controls just aren't conducive to it. Contemplate, for a moment, what it means when somebody pulls the yoke back to climb. The stem of the thing has to go somewhere, and if there's a skirt in the way...<snip>

That's OLD SCHOOL TALK
In today's modern airliner, 90% of the controls are FBW(Fly By Wire) technology.
The aircraft use a "side-stick", similar to a 'Joy-stick' on a computer game.

Cockpit Joy Stick JPG 2022-10-03.jpg

The pilot/co-pilot moves the 'Joy-stick' and a computer sends the control inputs
to the 'servos' on the control surfaces.

Even in GA(General Aviation) aircraft, the control yoke comes through the
instrument panel, not through the floor of the cockpit at the pilots feet.

C-172 cockpit JPG 2022-10-03.jpg

Cockpit control drawing JPG 2022-10-03.jpg

The control yoke is built like a capital "T" with the vertical portion of the
"T" behind the instrument panel. Nothing prohibits a skirted person from
flying/piloting an aircraft.

Cockpit controls JPG 2022-10-03.jpg

Uncle Al
(A licensed GA pilot and 50+ years in aviation)

[Coder]

Gosh - Uncle Al's location and this airline change just sparked a memory. I was in Houston TX a few months ago, and went to the Hobby Airport museum:

https://www.1940airterminal.org/

They are running an exhibit "FASHION TAKES FLIGHT: The Evolution of the Flight Attendant Uniform".

https://www.1940airterminal.org/fashion-takes-flight

It looks like it ends the 31st of this month. It is not a comprehensive display, not worth flying in to see - but if close by well worth the visit (I don't think I'd make a trip from say, Dallas or Austin, unless I could stay with family in Houston/Galveston). The exhibit was comprised of two small rooms with old flight attendant outfits - not including the rest of the museum's exhibits. It included some wonderful accessories like a bubble helmet to be worn if it was raining outside.

[crfriend]

In today's modern airliner, 90% of the controls are FBW(Fly By Wire) technology.
The aircraft use a "side-stick", similar to a 'Joy-stick' on a computer game.
Cockpit Joy Stick JPG 2022-10-03.jpg
The pilot/co-pilot moves the 'Joy-stick' and a computer sends the control inputs
to the 'servos' on the control surfaces.

I should have mentioned that as Airbus craft are well known for using that control layout. It's also been implicated in one high profile crash over the Atlantic a number of years ago.

I also discounted GA machines as we were discussing commercial operations, but I'm perfectly aware of the "through the panel" layout in use there.

However, in the end analysis, is there any harm in being a bit old-school?

[rode_kater]

On one, we shall see how it pans out in practise, because things usually happen very differently in practise than they do in theory. Yes, in theory, the new rule is "inclusive"; I strongly suspect that in practise it will be required that one declares -- one way or another -- that "he's" trans-* (women, of course, won't need to). Theory and practise are two very, very different animals.

Well, the biggest issue I have is that while any employee is allowed to wear skirts, AFAICT they have precisely one option: the pencil skirt. One thing I can't see from the picture is whether the male-trouser and the female-trouser option are actually exactly the same or not (they mention 22 designed pieces). I suspect not. So is there a male-skirt option that is distinct from the female-skirt option? While some men can pull off the pencil skirt, not all can.

I've tried to find some actual information, but a quick google doesn't reveal any detail.

I'm not sure why an employee would need to declare anything. At some point you rock up the place where the uniforms are handed out and point to the ones you want. I don't see why HR would even need to know.

But what would I know, I've never worked at a place with a dress code so no idea how that actually works.

[FLbreezy]

https://onemileatatime.com/news/non-bin ... ntic-crew/

A non-binary (now former) Virgin Atlantic cabin crew named Jaianni took to Facebook to share their disgust with Virgin Atlantic. Essentially Jaianni claims to be the person who pushed for this policy change at the airline, only to find that they were “erased” from the marketing campaign highlighting this policy change.