Skirt Cafe is an on-line community dedicated to exploring, promoting and advocating skirts and kilts as a fashion choice for men, formerly known as men in skirts. We do this in the context of men's fashion freedom --- an expansion of choices beyond those commonly available for men to include kilts, skirts and other garments. We recognize a diversity of styles our members feel comfortable wearing, and do not exclude any potential choices. Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom for men. See here for more details.
Brad wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:35 pmI have to respectfully disagree Carl. If my boss explicitly told me I could wear a skirt and heels to work, I would gladly do it without questioning the boss' motives. It seems that there is a view on this board that everything is all or nothing. I don't care -- I'll take the easy win.
That's fine, we have differing opinions on the matter.
At this point in my life, I really don't care what boxes some officious HR droid checks off -- because it won't matter later on in my career. However, if I was still in my 20s I'd always wonder who else would see that tick-mark and how it might affect the future.
It's all a matter of context. Things are seldom "easy".
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Brad wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:39 pm
Now turn these questions around for a man wearing a skirt. It seems that a man needs to have a REASON to wear a skirt. The reason should not matter. Let's accept people at face value.
Yep!
Brad wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:39 pm
Just curious- how many of you would wear the Virgin female uniform on the job if given the option? Or would you say "That's for trans people only and doesn't apply to cis-gender males who want to wear it."
I would consider it - but only if it fit well. If the tailoring was off or restrictive (the skirts look really restrictive) then no. Also not sure if I'd like the pouffy shirt (could live with that though). I don't like the idea of being labeled as not-cis, but I think that just comes with the territory and you live with it. If people ask, just say "fashion freedom". Plus, since flats are allowed, no issues with footwear, though I'm not certain what that means within the confines of their uniforms.
Brad wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:39 pm
About flight attendants in pantyhose- I've heard that pantyhose help with preventing vein issues for people on their feet and experiencing frequent altitude changes.
Maybe - but wouldn't it have to be compression rated or medical hose? Seems like the basic lightweight stuff wouldn't do much to prevent vein issues.
People who are trans don’t appreciate being called cis. So why should cis folks appreciate being called trans?
Flight attendant studies on blood clots used regular pantyhose.
Brad wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:35 pm
At this point in my life, I really don't care what boxes some officious HR droid checks off -- because it won't matter later on in my career. However, if I was still in my 20s I'd always wonder who else would see that tick-mark and how it might affect the future.
At least in the UK you wouldn’t have to worry too much. You can do a subject access request to see your HR records and require them to justify and/or delete any offensive comments.
Midas wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:24 pmAt least in the UK you wouldn’t have to worry too much. You can do a subject access request to see your HR records and require them to justify and/or delete any offensive comments.
I was writing from the USA perspective where there are no effective labour laws or vehicles of recourse when wrongs are committed. Hence, I have precisely no confidence that what I might get a look at is what's actually in there -- never-mind getting incorrect information removed.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
A further thought to add regarding the Virgin Airways story, which I think is largely a publicity stunt by Branson. All that he has done is basically said that male employees can choose to wear the female uniform if they wish (and vice versa). In other words, they are saying they accept crew crossdressing at work. As much as I would like to see a masculine skirt option for males, this is not it. How many on here would, if they had a job with Virgin, choose the women's uniform? I imagine it would be nobody - I wouldn't because I don't want to dress as a woman.
Women staff will be able to wear trousers of various styles if they prefer those to skirts. Men who do not consider themselves to be trans and have no other gender issues will be stuck with precisely the same options as before.
crfriend wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:02 pm
I was writing from the USA perspective where there are no effective labour laws or vehicles of recourse when wrongs are committed. Hence, I have precisely no confidence that what I might get a look at is what's actually in there -- never-mind getting incorrect information removed.
That’s what you get for living in the land of the free.
The German rail system just announced a similar policy but the brief articles I read were a little more along the lines of "eh, just wear what makes you comfortable" and less about an agenda. One of the photos I saw also had a skirt (maybe it was a dress) that didn't look so restrictive. (No time to post links, I need to go into town and vote this morning)
Edit: paywall links everywhere, but here's the uniforms:
I’d love to get the dark uniform: mens jacket, shirt, tie, then match with a skirt, hosiery, heels.
The latter would be modest in height: it’s a working uniform. I do find though that some heel plus a low vamp shrinks my feet, a result that I find aesthetically pleasing.
Mind you, I’d love the above rig in red too. I love bright colours! I’m off to a university gathering shortly in my burnt orange trousers…
Stu wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:11 pm
A further thought to add regarding the Virgin Airways story, which I think is largely a publicity stunt by Branson.
Rather reminds me of when schools "allow" boys to wear skirts.
They know perfectly well that other factors will effectively neutralise any potential uptake.
The fact that Virgin only offer a type of skirt that not every female would wear, let alone a guy is also indicative of the motivation behind it.
Steve.
"British Airways is reviewing its uniform policy after rival Virgin Atlantic said it no longer required staff to wear ‘gendered uniform options’."
Is it a step forward? Only the take-up levels by males will answer that question.
Otherwise, just a bit of bandwagon publicity for both airlines.
Steve.
Is it really based on a "risk" assessment to their employees or potentially adverse publicity if something nasty occurred?
Not sure is my own thought.
Steve.
Is it really based on a "risk" assessment to their employees or potentially adverse publicity if something nasty occurred?
Not sure is my own thought.
Steve.
The Middle East is not LGBT-friendly.
When traveling into the middle east you will see lots of women putting on their Hijab as the plane makes its approach into the Airport.
