Closing Window of Opportunity

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
Grok
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Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by Grok »

It has been warned by crfriend that skirted garments may soon become signifiers for LGBTQ. In which case, we can expect the average straight male to reject the idea of trying skirts. Normalizing Men In Skirts will be pushed far into the future, beyond our life times. Comments?
Spirou003
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by Spirou003 »

I agree with this. If skirt for men is signifier of LGBT, then straight male will reject it.
For most (straight) men, finding a girlfriend is very important. Most men have no interest in skirt. Those men will thus consider finding a girlfriend as more important than wearing a skirt they have no interest in, which implies that they will prefer to not wear skirt rather than staying celibate.
Since both groups heavily overlap and constitute the big majority of all straight men, it means that it remains only a very small fraction of straight men willing to wear a skirt... at their own "risks" (I'm here only speaking about girlfriend)

Whether the skirt become or not a LGBT signifier, depends on the proportion of straight men wearing skirt over men wearing skirt to signal they're on the LGBT spectrum. I guess we all know the answer.

NB: I'm celibate and have 17 skirts I don't wear publicly
Freedomforall
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by Freedomforall »

Is the skirt indeed becoming more of a symbol or has it remained mostly the same and social media is making it appear more prevalent as an identifier for LBGTQ+? I personally think nothing has really changed. There is a reason we humans love to categorize. Most tend to think in binary terms. In fact, almost everything we categorize is usually in binary terms; good, bad, ugly pretty, male female, etc. I wager the skirt is not becoming any more of a symbol for LBGTQ+ in mot peoples mind, than it ever was.
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TSH
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by TSH »

What makes you think skirts for men WASN'T already such for LGBTQ+? People used to (and I believe still do) ostracize a man who was perceived as feminine based on his mannerisms, dialect, and most superficially, what he wore. Skirts are still largely considered something only women "should" wear, so of course people are going to operate on the assumption in which that's how gay men dress.

As @FFA said, it's easier for people to label things, than it is for them to understand any of it and take more than a second to think about.
Last edited by TSH on Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TomOfTx
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by TomOfTx »

Stop worrying about being labeled or what people think! It has already been the case for many years! The same small percentage of small minded bigots who don’t have enough problems in their life that they need to focus on things such as how we may dress will exist even if the whole LGBTQWTF group disappeared tomorrow!

Keep pushing forward and enjoy life while you can! Fearing judgment from others is one of the biggest life mistakes so many people make. Unfortunately, we often grow old too fast and become wise too late! 😎
Coder
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by Coder »

I’m going to be uncharacteristically positive regarding this topic. I think a man wearing a skirt is always going to be a symbol of something or another - but in the end it doesn’t matter. Granted, finding a spouse could be difficult.

Rather than “trans” I think skirt wearing by men is increasingly seen as “non-binary”, which is just the latest in the current trends. I see that as less threatening, and it could be a stepping stone to greater acceptance.

Yes - lumping a man wearing a skirt in with LGBTQ is frustrating - I’d prefer it weren’t so - but that we can’t change.
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moonshadow
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by moonshadow »

Well, I can tell you this, out of all my seven years of wearing skirts, some of them pretty darned feminine, I have only been "ma'amed" about three times, and asked about my pronouns maybe four in total, and I've had hundreds of interactions regarding my choice in dress, so that puts the ratio of people assuming I'm trans or whatnot at less than 1%.

I think the majority of people who stop to think about it probably just assume I have some sort of mental problem. I mean, what kind of man in his right mind would purposely sacrifice all that white male cis privilege I was born with to become feeeeeemminiiiineeee!? *eeeewww!* :roll:

And in point of fact, the anti-trans people mostly do believe that transgender women have a serious mental disorder, so I suppose that's one thing we all share in common, the "nay sayers" all think we're crazy. Maybe we are... I don't know.

At the end of it all, I don't really care if people think I'm homosexual, trans, non-binary, etc. None of that I view as a pejorative anyway. I find no shame in any of it.

My struggle is with the "woke" thingy. And as I've indicated in another recent thread, I don't want to feel like I'm contributing to the culture wars, serving to make ratings for sleazy "news" outlets get politicians elected. I don't know if I'm "woke" or "trans" or whatnot. Those assumptions are assumed on a very biased and somewhat arbitrary basis so I really try not to pay mind to what people may think. The only thing I know for sure is my sexuality, or what I'm attracted to, and that is a matter I've never felt the need to discuss openly outside of my wife and those in my extreme inner circle (as in those I live with). Outside of that, it's really none of anyone else's business.

I love embracing my inner femininity. Not just in clothes but in all matters traditionally considered "feminine". This is not to say that I've abandoned my masculinity, rather I view my gender as an all you can eat buffet, and I just like to fill my plate.... that's all. I don't go around telling people I'm a woman, and I'm certainly not of the female sex. But for my entire life I have put off a feminine vibe to the point of being bullied and teased for it by just about everyone I came into contact with growing up. In school many children called me "sissy" for the way I was, and I've never had much luck with finding romantic girlfriends, but most friends I had were girls, very few were boys.

I understand my situation is likely not the one of the majority here at the cafe, and it is possible I may find more kindred spirits on some "non-binary" or even transgender forum out there, but I hang out here because I like the active members here and consider each of you friends... yes even the ones I've tussled with on occasion. I enjoy my time here.

Anyway, I really didn't get to explore this side of me until I moved far away from family and my hometown. It is no coincidence that I started exploring skirts shortly after my move two hours away from my nearest family, and four hours from my hometown. My family, especially on my fathers side is VERY macho, males had better act like men and female "tomboys" are celebrated. I was chastised often for my interest in flowers, dolls, pretty things, even the way I held my flatware when I would eat.

So, while I don't really run with a LGBTQ+ group, nor do I really involve myself actively in the community, I don't have any hangups if folks want to associate me in that group. The fact is, I'm a complicated guy and really can't be labeled in any simple way. I'm just me. My feminine side is a light that for too long has been stifled by the world I lived in. No more. It's not something I'm ashamed of, it's something I'm proud of, and when I feel I'm free to openly express it, I feel wonderful and beautiful inside and out.
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The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
Freedomforall
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by Freedomforall »

moonshadow wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:07 pm


Anyway, I really didn't get to explore this side of me until I moved far away from family and my hometown. It is no coincidence that I started exploring skirts shortly after my move two hours away from my nearest family, and four hours from my hometown. My family, especially on my fathers side is VERY macho, males had better act like men and female "tomboys" are celebrated. I was chastised often for my interest in flowers, dolls, pretty things, even the way I held my flatware when I would eat.
Same for me. Both parents passed an I moved away.
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JeffB1959
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by JeffB1959 »

TomOfTx wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:25 pm Stop worrying about being labeled or what people think! It has already been the case for many years! The same small percentage of small minded bigots who don’t have enough problems in their life that they need to focus on things such as how we may dress will exist even if the whole LGBTQWTF group disappeared tomorrow!

Keep pushing forward and enjoy life while you can! Fearing judgment from others is one of the biggest life mistakes so many people make. Unfortunately, we often grow old too fast and become wise too late! 😎
All that, and more!
I don't want to LOOK like a woman, I just want to DRESS like a woman.
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by Fred in Skirts »

I am a SIS male, whatever the he!! that means anymore. I wear skirts and dresses at all times, I no longer even own pants or shorts. And what ever some a$$hat thinks of me is something I care less about than what happened to DB Cooper. :lol:
I do not dress to impress the a$$hats of this world, I dress to impress me! 8)
I find the comfort of skirts and dresses to my liking and so enjoy it..

So remember just one thing, BE WHO YOU ARE AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD!
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
Always be yourself because the people that matter don’t mind and the ones that mind don’t matter.
STEVIE
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by STEVIE »

Hate to be agreeable, but I am a very average straight male who wears skirts and dresses.
I know, and have always known this for a fact.
What it may or may not signify to anyone else is really not my concern. I got over that years ago, had I not I'd be sleeping peacefully instead of tapping this message.
My window will not be closed if I can help it. My skirts will have to be prised from my cold dead fingers. :cry:
Steve.
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moonshadow
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by moonshadow »

Grok wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:32 pm Normalizing Men In Skirts will be pushed far into the future, beyond our life times.
I forgot to mention... I couldn't care less about other men. They can wear whatever they want. If every man in every place stopped wearing skirts tomorrow it wouldn't phase me a bit. My style isn't typical for your average skirt wearing man, nor is it typical for cis-gender women or transgender women. Even in the skirt wearing world I seem to do my own thing, so why should I care if a man wears a pair of bibs, pants, breeches, shorts, a kilt, a granny skirt, a prom dress, or just struts around naked? It's his life, not mine.

As long as society leaves me alone to do my thing, that's my primary concern.

Frankly I know a lot of Russell County Virginia men (and a few women too) that in my opinion would not look right in a skirt... they need to stick to their pants. Some people just aren't built for it.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
STEVIE
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by STEVIE »

moonshadow wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:13 am Some people just aren't built for it.
The only clothing a human is actually built for Moon is their birthday suit which has to be the ultimate in bespoke tailoring.
I don't think there is an "average" skirt wearing guy for you to be atypical of either.
Like I said, nobody is built for it, so clothing is only relevant because humans say so and man, how we love to tell the world!
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Barleymower
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by Barleymower »

Grok wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:32 pm It has been warned by crfriend that skirted garments may soon become signifiers for LGBTQ. In which case, we can expect the average straight male to reject the idea of trying skirts. Normalizing Men In Skirts will be pushed far into the future, beyond our life times. Comments?
The average straight male will always reject anything that makes him look (in the world's eyes) - gay. Straight woman will reject a man (who she thinks, everyone else will think) is gay. That's the status quo now.
If the world accepts that the binary does not exist and by default, everyone is non-binary. LGBTQ+ will become the norm.
The group that needs to be won over is the women. If they decide it's ok for men to wear 'their' clothes. If the door is opened on gorgeous fabrics and styles, men all over will dive in. Imagine that, a world were we all can wear whatever we want without prejudice. This is bigger than just men wearing skirts, win the non-binary arguement and the rest will follow.
My daughter and her friends fully embrace non-binary. They are a big group in schools now. The opposing group are 'road men'. They still shout lesbian/gay out of the bus window. The Road Men are dumb and they will follow the herd like sheep. The tide is turning, stay positive and be among the first to enjoy the new freedom.
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moonshadow
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Re: Closing Window of Opportunity

Post by moonshadow »

Barleymower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:55 am If the world accepts that the binary does not exist and by default, everyone is non-binary. LGBTQ+ will become the norm.
I imagine finding romance will be difficult for the truly heterosexual [0] skirt wearing man. And it does seem like our culture is changing... more and more people are identifying as LGBTQ+, it seems we all know several people in the group, and the younger generation seems all over it.

It's possible to find heterosexual romance... but boy it sure narrows the options down. Indeed, most women, and by most I'd hazard a good guess that 99% of women won't have it. Closer to 99.999999999% in rural areas and very conservative places.

Take me for example... I never was much of a lady killer, even before I started wearing skirts... I've never even hit on by a female, but have had several guys make a pass at me, especially when I was younger. Ironically wearing skirts put a stop to that for the most part...

Now who says wearing skirts will attract other men?? Not by my own statistics.

The point being, that guys who look feminine or even act feminine are NOT going to attract most females. It's the law of natural selection. Most human females desire a mate that they feel can take care of them, protect them and their offspring, and they desire a mate that doesn't appear to have a mental issue. It doesn't make women bad or prejudiced, it'd just wired into our evolution.

Sorry guys... that's just how it is.

[0] Heterosexual, as jn straight without exception, no trans-women or others on the LGBTQ+ spectrum... just an attraction to straight heterosexual, cis-gendered women only.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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