Metro: Sean Penn is wrong – men who wear skirts are brave, not cowards

[Coder]

https://metro.co.uk/2022/02/02/sean-pen ... -16032753/

This is obviously in response to Sean Penn's comments. Some quotes:

But still, clothing as a form of expression, liberation, and empowerment, especially when linked to gender and the dismantling of it is a relatively new concept. Now, it is seen as radical if a man wears a skirt because it is making a very clear statement, that of: ‘I know this is unusual in your eyes and goes against everything you’ve been conditioned to believe but I’m doing it anyway’.

Yet, at the same time, I despair that just being yourself has to be a form of activism.

Why can’t people just mind their own business rather than wade into discussions about gender expression?

While the author is coming at "men in skirts" from a LGBTQ+ angle, I think the sentiment that he conveys are common to what we all discuss here (ie, just a general men's right issue).

[crfriend]

While the author is coming at "men in skirts" from a LGBTQ+ angle, I think the sentiment that he conveys are common to what we all discuss here (ie, just a general men's right issue).

Why does the argument always have to be made form the LGBTQWTF++ perspective? What happens if a bloke wearing a skirt is merely making a fashion or style statement and precisely nothing more? "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"!

[STEVIE]

Hi Guys
I'm not convinced that the article was coming solely from the LGBTQ angle at all.
Sure it gets a mention and the author is gay but I don't feel that was relevant to the overall message.
As for LGBTQ, Joe Public will almost certainly place a guy in a skirt in at least one of the categories.
I'm afraid that is just what it is.
Steve.

[Coder]

Hi Guys
I'm not convinced that the article was coming solely from the LGBTQ angle at all.
Sure it gets a mention and the author is gay but I don't feel that was relevant to the overall message.
As for LGBTQ, Joe Public will almost certainly place a guy in a skirt in at least one of the categories.
I'm afraid that is just what it is.
Steve.

I didn't mean to say it was solely coming from that angle - the quotes I pulled convey the message I think the author was trying to say. That is, let people wear what they want. He did, however, describe his lifestyle which is LGBTQ+, it makes up a large part of the article, and so is linked to the broader message.

I'm not complaining - very few articles are what we want, and overall it was a positive message. I wish we could get to a point where these articles just talk about style options, how to pick out the right skirt, and color theory. Or whatever regular men's style article read like - I honestly don't bother reading that sort of stuff anyways, and if I start reading stuff like that please put me out of my misery.

[crfriend]

I wish we could get to a point where these articles just talk about style options, how to pick out the right skirt, and color theory. Or whatever regular men's style article read like - I honestly don't bother reading that sort of stuff anyways, and if I start reading stuff like that please put me out of my misery.

Well, if one never learns colour theory one will never be able to properly play with it and will remain imprisoned in the drab world of the macho male. The technical literature is quite good; the stuff that eminates from the "fashion world" is frequently dreck and not worth the ink or electrons spilt to produce it. Read the engineers and the neuroscientists, not the pundits and critics.

[Uncle Al]

This quote from the article is one that I wish all people would/could understand.

Embracing your true self is not cowardly, it is unbelievably strong. I just
wish everybody would catch up with this supposedly revolutionary concept.

What ever you wear, BE YOUR CONFIDENT SELF. YOU know what item you're looking for,
so don't let the store assistants, or others around you, deter your quest. Ask pertinent
questions to the assistants. Ignore what you're wearing! Your mind is set on the item
at hand, not what others "think" of your abilities based on what you're wearing.

I've shopped many times at Home Depot/Lowes and the store help never questioned
my apparel. We've discussed the use of, or best product for, the project. After a few
moments 'they' were sure I knew what I was talking about and stayed on track to help
me find the best product for the job at hand.

This "concept" holds for ANY SITUATION

Uncle Al

[STEVIE]

This "concept" holds for ANY SITUATION

or "Behave like you belong in a place and you will"
Steve

[Faldaguy]

by STEVIE » Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:18 pm

As for LGBTQ, Joe Public will almost certainly place a guy in a skirt in at least one of the categories.
I'm afraid that is just what it is.

.
Though it did not matter to me, when I first started wearing skirts in public I did wonder if I'd be so labeled. When I was with my wife I felt a bit more insulated from such labels but I never received any clear signals or pronouncements with or without a companion present -- be they male or female. I did have a sense that when accompanied by women that the Joe Public male was perhaps more envious than disparaging!

[Sherkhan]

Personally I have not been wearing a skirt long (public or otherwise). This last summer my wife said why not (when I commented on getting a Hiking skirt), once I started wearing a Skirt - well, the comfort is what got me. I like being comfortable - what anyone else thinks, meh - not really something I care all that much about. For me - comfort wins, hands down, every day.

[Stu]

Sean Penn is indeed wrong.

I am a man. I am no less masculine than he is - probably quite the reverse. I spent three decades as a front-line cop in a tough area, as opposed to an actor pretending to be a tough guy while projecting his insecurities onto others.

Skirts are just pieces of cloth in the simplest design imaginable. There is nothing fundamentally feminine about them any more than trousers are inherently male garments. The issues for me are comfort (sometimes, they can be more comfortable than trousers); choice because it's always good to have options); and gender equality (why should such a basic garment be the exclusive preserve of just 50% of the population according to their reproductive category? And where is the logic in saying skirts are exclusively feminine garments - unless they are worn by Scotsmen or men from Fiji?

[Dust]

From the article:

This is just the latest in a long line of bizarre statements he has made over the years that, to me, illustrate a woeful lack of empathy and understanding for anybody in the universe that isn’t like him – a cis-heterosexual man.

All I could think when I read this was, "he doesn't have empathy for straight, cis men either... No one does."

There is a massive lack of empathy for men in our society, and until we fix that, everything we may try to change in society to benefit men will be an uphill battle.

[STEVIE]

There is a massive lack of empathy for men in our society, and until we fix that, everything we may try to change in society to benefit men will be an uphill battle.

Agreed Dust but the malaise goes further, we are not living in empathic times.
Society is really self-oriented right now and not just for men.
As for the Penn guy, I think we had established his lack of credibility without the Metro's sagacity.
Steve.

[Sinned]

How can he call anyone who wears a dress or a skirt out and about a coward? As anyone that has done so the first time can remember the feelings of panic, uncertainty and yes, fear, to step out the door, never mind walk through the supermarket. Now that is courage, not weakness. He wants challenging to don a skirt and face the public. My memories of the first few times will remain with me. Never felt anything like it before or since.

[pelmut]

[...]My memories of the first few times will remain with me. Never felt anything like it before or since.

Mine too - but I also remember wondering why the sky wasn't falling in or where the anticipated lynch mob was hiding and biding their time.  Then the truth dawned on me: most of the people I met didn't notice; most of those who noticed didn't care; and all of those who did care, cared because they were completely supportive.

[Charlie]

[...]My memories of the first few times will remain with me. Never felt anything like it before or since.

Me too. I well remember working in a flat in Bristol and really, really wanting to wear a skirt for the 20 mile drive home. I stood behind the front door with lots of people walking past outside. Finally I opened the door and went out and ... nothing happened. A walk around the block to the car, got in and enjoyed the journey home. A tremendous confidence boost
Charlie