Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
new2skirts
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:33 pm

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by new2skirts »

STEVIE wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:40 am
new2skirts wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:14 pm
I say Mark never looks like he is in stuff from the local market some of the styles with high slits at the side aren't really me, and he wore some odd skirt / pants combo which threw me the other day (obviously modelling stuff), but his 15 mins of fame seem to be doing him well
I do agree regarding the benefits to Marc but not the "Genderless Clothing" angle.
There is nothing here to cause chains such as Zara, Warehouse, Hobbs or Joe Browns to consider removing the gender tags from their garments.
On the other hand I cannot see that it would cause Moss Bros or similar to introduce skirts for men to their offerings either.
Sorry man but Marc has gone high fashion and that alone will never bring "genderless" to the mass market.
Perhaps if he set his sights on Next or Marks and Spencer even Primark, who knows?
Steve.
When you look at his Instagram feed, you can tell he's high fashion anyway. Stepping out of a brand new Porsche, being chauffered in Mercedes (and he travels by train a lot) but there would be no point trying to influence the lower orders when the Rich control everything and have more influence and sway. That in turn has brought him into contact with celebrities and a lot of young people who may eventually take up the look. It is miles better than the offerings from the catwalk. EJ Johnson had a smart skirted look before going all femme -and it's that stereotype of skirt = transitioning which Mark is breaking.

I couldn't see Mark in Next skirts on a local high street or shopping in Asda (Walmart) with the masses. The same seems to go for Vlasta (GenderBlender) and other Instagrammers in more luxurious locations :roll:

The mass market is keen to wear the same jeans or tracksuit bottoms and not to step out of line. I imagine for most guys fashion is expensive, so unless you have the means or interest, it would be something that just peters out over time.

I am more into Kilts and Highland Wear (trust me, it's expensive and not for those on modest means), but it's an expensive pursuit for the upper middle classes sadly. Especially in Corona days where there's few events to kilt up for. Currently looking to buy an £800 Kilt Suit in tweed, light years away from thrifted jeans skirts from charity shops. Even Thrift or Charity shops have gone upmarket and it's more designer labels in there :shock:

Sadly, genderless dressing is a social construct out of the reach of the masses. JeffB dresses well, Coder too, and Alastair who used to post here, but you will find they are in well paying jobs. It requires capital for the clothes, then the thick skin to get out and wear them 8)
Formerly Kilty / Joe Public etc...
Coder
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1593
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:40 am

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by Coder »

new2skirts wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:34 pm
Sadly, genderless dressing is a social construct out of the reach of the masses. JeffB dresses well, Coder too, and Alastair who used to post here, but you will find they are in well paying jobs. It requires capital for the clothes, then the thick skin to get out and wear them 8)
Thanks, although I'm not quite there yet with the thick skin, though maybe one day, but have been out and about on occasion. And erm, I do have a decent paying job, but nowhere near what the industry pays tech due to the sector I work in.
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 6510
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Contact:

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by moonshadow »

new2skirts wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:34 pm
I couldn't see Mark in Next skirts on a local high street or shopping in Asda (Walmart) with the masses. The same seems to go for Vlasta (GenderBlender) and other Instagrammers in more luxurious locations
That's a little bit of what's ever so slightly annoying me. I don't have a problem with these "high street" articles, nor the men who they feature, but I long for regular "working class" articles that tell the stories of just the regular "everyday Joe" who happens to wear skirts.

Good on Mark for being him, but I just can't relate to someone who clearly doesn't need to worry about money, or trying to be true to yourself and express yourself freely while at the same time being of the wage earner class. It's a fine line to walk, and it's only recently gotten more tolerant of guys like me. Recall the situation I had in 2016 where I come-a hair of getting fired because of an off the clock photo I posted of me on Facebook wearing a skirt.

The employer I work for now is tolerant and even accepting, and just last month I finally told my Branch Manager about the 2016 story and why I'm wear I'm at now. She told me she was humbled that I trusted her to confide this story and vowed that I would face no type of discrimination or other such trouble on account of this.

Anyway, where are those articles and stories? They're so hard to find. :(
Sadly, genderless dressing is a social construct out of the reach of the masses.
I have to disagree. Affordable clothing is just as easy as visiting any local clothing store, or thrift store. It may not be "genderless", but then again, "genderless" is a hard term to define anyway, and as it's been discussed in other threads, no article of clothing has a gender. In fact, Mark's look can easily be duplicated for under $100. It may not have the designer tags, and they may be second hand, and it make take some creativity and patience to track down just the right buys, but it can be done... and I'm of the opinion that that's part of the fun, browsing through the thrift store while you only went in there to see if they have a toaster or a kitchen chair, or maybe just to browse, and on your way out, you glance over at the skirts section, and there it is... the perfect piece to complete the outfit you've been assembling in your mind for the last six months.
JeffB dresses well, Coder too, and Alastair who used to post here, but you will find they are in well paying jobs. It requires capital for the clothes, then the thick skin to get out and wear them
Out of the three, Coder seems to have the most "casual" style. Often times he seems to wear printed tee-shirts with whatever off the peg knee length skirts he happened upon. I don't know what he paid for either, but I can't imagine the entire outfit being too outrageous on price. In any event, I probably am among the lowest paid members here on this site. In most parts of the country I'd be considered "poor class", however in my region I'm slightly above average. Nevertheless, I live a very modest life, we live in an older, somewhat rundown house with many cracked windows and doors, I drive a vehicle that's almost legally an antique (by Virginia standards). Jenn has the "new car" and it's 10 years old. We live on a street of similar homes, far from uptown. There are several single wide trailers on our road, and a couple doublewides. All of the houses seem to be at or around 1000 square feet in size, all single story, and many at least 50 years old, with some of the oldest (including mine) over 70. You can see a slight sag in the roof line of my house, and our driveway has just as much grass and mud in it as it does gravels.

The point is, the world of skirt wearing is open to anyone who literally has a couple of bucks to visit a thrift store and buy one. And you don't need to be wealthy to have thick skin. You just have to not give a........

It's somewhat ironic that the poor and working class may be best poised to truly move the needle on men's skirt wearing and overall fashion freedom, as the poor and working class are usually the ones with hardly anything to lose! I know of a lot of very successful men who wouldn't DREAM of wearing anything skirt related because they feel it would damage their reputation, and their livelihoods are closely tied to their reputation.
Coder
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1593
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:40 am

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by Coder »

moonshadow wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:55 pm
Out of the three, Coder seems to have the most "casual" style. Often times he seems to wear printed tee-shirts with whatever off the peg knee length skirts he happened upon. I don't know what he paid for either, but I can't imagine the entire outfit being too outrageous on price.
I have - probably can count on two hands - the skirts I've bought at full price, and spent no more than $100 on each. That's over 10+ years. The rest are off the peg - often NWT - but bought second hand or so heavily discounted that they are final sale (think $140 skirt selling for $29). I've also bought damaged skirts of name brands for practically free (ie, a Tory Burch skirt that was missing a button) - fancy brands are attainable with some limitations. However, my "top" game isn't quite there when it comes to being stylish - I fall deeply into the casual territory and when I dress more formal I just don't feel comfortable. That is, I want the freedom to dress up like Mark (for instance) with no repercussions from family or work, but when it comes down to it that just isn't my style and so what I really want to do is just mix and match till I feel comfortable.
STEVIE
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 3286
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: North East Scotland.

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by STEVIE »

new2skirts wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:34 pm
Sadly, genderless dressing is a social construct out of the reach of the masses. JeffB dresses well, Coder too, and Alastair who used to post here, but you will find they are in well paying jobs. It requires capital for the clothes, then the thick skin to get out and wear them
NTS
"Gendered" clothing is a social construct and most of the masses wear clothes so I am rather confused as to what you really mean.
That is unless you are driving at the rather pointless concept of the designer led "manskirt".
I also think that you may be making too many assumptions regarding some members.
Do you think that only a certain disposable income confers consideration or respect?
moonshadow wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:55 pm
The point is, the world of skirt wearing is open to anyone who literally has a couple of bucks to visit a thrift store and buy one. And you don't need to be wealthy to have thick skin. You just have to not give a........
Yeah Moon and it is up to us to prove this very point.
Wealth only gives a bigger budget but certainly doesn't create a better person.
Coder wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:21 pm
However, my "top" game isn't quite there when it comes to being stylish - I fall deeply into the casual territory and when I dress more formal I just don't feel comfortable.
Coder, and there you have nailed it. If you are not "comfortable" you will just make things harder for yourself. Practice and time is what it takes plus a lot of patience.
Then we have "stylish", that is just a matter of opinion with no bearing.
We have to get past this fixation that one must be prepared as if for a photo shoot in every waking moment.
Unless you wish to become an influencer that is.
Steve.
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 6510
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Contact:

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by moonshadow »

STEVIE wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:41 pm
We have to get past this fixation that one must be prepared as if for a photo shoot in every waking moment.
Indeed, and it's interesting that some of my favorite looks were when I didn't "dress up".
Coder
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1593
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:40 am

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by Coder »

moonshadow wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:10 pm
STEVIE wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:41 pm
We have to get past this fixation that one must be prepared as if for a photo shoot in every waking moment.
Indeed, and it's interesting that some of my favorite looks were when I didn't "dress up".
I’d love to be so carefree. I am with jeans and t-shirts, but with skirts I feel like I have to be as perfect as possible lest someone think negative of me.
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
Posts: 13469
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)
Contact:

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by crfriend »

Coder wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:17 pm
I’d love to be so carefree. I am with jeans and t-shirts, but with skirts I feel like I have to be as perfect as possible lest someone think negative of me.
Jeans and t-shirts don't count because that's camouflage and you disappear into the surrounding scenery. That look is essentially invisible.

Skirts, on the other hand, do stand out -- even in denim (although that's "visual noise" to me and not interpreted as anything) -- and it's worth at least trying to make it all look believable. Note the verbiage, "believable", in other words, "don't look outlandish". I just got back from a holiday in Savannah, GA where not even once did I have legs down two separate tubes. I went all over the place and never had a lick of problem (save for a jealous ex-boyfriend); the women where my lady-friend works were all a-twitter about me and asking all sorts of questions of her; and I spotted several things on the trip that gave me big smiles indeed. Even though most everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong, I view the thing as a success. Yes, I did plan out my wardrobe before I departed, mainly because I do not have a TARDIS for a suitcase (unlike what my lady-friend's purse looked like -- "It's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside!").

Caring what one looks like is usually a good strategy, even if it sometimes seems like work.

My look is not for everybody. As I playfully put it to my lady-friend, "If I can come across as a slightly confused time-traveller, then I shall have done my job." because many (if not most) of my mannerisms are archaic, as is my wardrobe. No wonder the women at her place of work were curious about what the apparition from the north was.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
Kirbstone
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 5291
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:55 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by Kirbstone »

Carl,
I'm so pleased for you that your long-planned trip to Savannah went well and was a success. You had written little about it (that I had read) and I was wondering....
I expect with the mild weather down there you could go about in Summer clothes, for a change.

I never wear jeans. Hate 'em. The one exception being on my now very rare visits to my old German shanty choir. Their 'Kluft' or uniform is a loose ill-fitting sailor's shirt over black or blue jeans, a pair of which I bought just for that purpose. Last time I was with them it was aboard 'Ryvar' on the Baltic and I brought along a lightweight kilt on that occasion.

Only about half the choir signed up for that trip. We encountered a force 8 on the previous trip and several were ill, so our numbers were depleted for that next sailing trip.

Tom
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Carpe Diem......Seize the Day !
Ray
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1610
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:03 am
Location: West Midlands, England, UK

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by Ray »

Tom, I’m with you on the jeans. Horrible uniforms. I’ve not worn any for almost 10 years now.
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
Posts: 13469
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)
Contact:

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by crfriend »

Kirbstone wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:55 am
Carl,
I'm so pleased for you that your long-planned trip to Savannah went well and was a success. You had written little about it (that I had read) and I was wondering....
I expect with the mild weather down there you could go about in Summer clothes, for a change.
I'll write about my "Southern Adventure" once I've fully post-processed it. Most things went right, but what could go wrong frequently did and required some mid-course correction in accommodation. Most definitely light-weight clothes were the order of the day as the daytime temperatures were typically in the upper 70s or very low 80s.

I didn't keep a journal this time, but I have some mental notes of the high points (and the low ones). The summary is that it's a beautiful city, and one I'd like to visit again sometime after the situation "on the ground" improves.
I never wear jeans. Hate 'em.
Ditto this old boy. I can't stand the things. Heavy, uncomfortable, and not-at-all hard-wearing. Not worth the price of admission.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Dust
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 861
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by Dust »

crfriend wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:50 pm
Kirbstone wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:55 am
I never wear jeans. Hate 'em.
Ditto this old boy. I can't stand the things. Heavy, uncomfortable, and not-at-all hard-wearing. Not worth the price of admission.
I'm with you. I wear pants (ugh) as much as skirts, and yet I've only got one or two pair of jeans left and almost never wear them. They came out for trips to the country bar with my wife maybe once per year, proving once again they are a fashion statement, not a practical garment.
User avatar
skirtyscot
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 3307
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:44 pm
Location: West Kilbride, Ayrshire, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by skirtyscot »

new2skirts wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:34 pm
JeffB dresses well, Coder too, and Alastair who used to post here, but you will find they are in well paying jobs. It requires capital for the clothes, then the thick skin to get out and wear them 8)


Thanks for the compliment, but I'm still here! (From time to time. ) In fact, you've already quoted me in this thread. :mrgreen:

While I do earn comfortably more than the UK average, I spend very little of it on skirts. Almost all of them have come from Ebay. I've been trying to count how many I have bought in a shop, and I make it 5. Five out of ... lots! My smart skirts are almost all from Boden originally, but I've never paid their prices. Relatively recently I posted pictures of myself in a Boden pencil skirt which I got on Ebay for about £3, though it was virtually unworn and had cost the seller £90. If the bidding reaches £10 including postage, I generally bow out and wait for the same skirt to come up for auction again. So not much capital is needed at all.

The thick skin ... guilty as charged, m'lud! But I sense that yours is just as thick as mine.
Keep on skirting,

Alastair
new2skirts
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:33 pm

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by new2skirts »

skirtyscot wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:20 pm
new2skirts wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:34 pm
JeffB dresses well, Coder too, and Alastair who used to post here, but you will find they are in well paying jobs. It requires capital for the clothes, then the thick skin to get out and wear them 8)


Thanks for the compliment, but I'm still here! (From time to time. ) In fact, you've already quoted me in this thread. :mrgreen:

While I do earn comfortably more than the UK average, I spend very little of it on skirts. Almost all of them have come from Ebay. I've been trying to count how many I have bought in a shop, and I make it 5. Five out of ... lots! My smart skirts are almost all from Boden originally, but I've never paid their prices. Relatively recently I posted pictures of myself in a Boden pencil skirt which I got on Ebay for about £3, though it was virtually unworn and had cost the seller £90. If the bidding reaches £10 including postage, I generally bow out and wait for the same skirt to come up for auction again. So not much capital is needed at all.

The thick skin ... guilty as charged, m'lud! But I sense that yours is just as thick as mine.
lol all these usernames, it's hard to keep track of who's who :mrgreen:

Same here, most of my skirts are from charity shops or Ebay. I have only bought custom made kilts (getting more into Highland wear) and had a kilt suit made, and another £800 one on its way. Sitting here in a Zara skirt which may have cost the owner the best part of £50 (probably worn once for a party, but I got it for £8).
Got a nice Boden jeans skirt but I team it with thick tights on the weekend. My Gingham print pencil is more for summer, lets see what kind of summer we get :roll:

Get out there and wear it is the best advice, Mark is enjoying life with fast cars, great clothes and photo shoots :ugeek:
Formerly Kilty / Joe Public etc...
STEVIE
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 3286
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: North East Scotland.

Re: Harper’s BAZAAR Australia: The age of genderless dressing: A sixty-something football coach changes the dress code

Post by STEVIE »

new2skirts wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:48 pm
Get out there and wear it is the best advice, Mark is enjoying life with fast cars, great clothes and photo shoots
Hi NTS
Are you on Mark's payroll by any chance?
If not, you should be!
Apart from that I quite agree about just getting out there and as for cost, that is your business and nobody else's.
Steve.
Post Reply