Boys skirting the issue

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
Coder
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by Coder »

Stevej180 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:52 pm
Stu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:40 pm I left it there. Was I being obtuse? I think her "new policy" is just another fudge - virtue signalling about how progressive the school is when it is not really giving all students equality at all - it's just catering for trans girls. I perhaps should have asked her why she hadn't contacted the supplier and asked them to label all their skirts as "unisex" and that would have solved the issue.
I’m not sure you were being obtuse (as I understand that word) but I suspect this has more to do with the supplier and the school is actually being quite open and egalitarian - i.e. saying you can wear whatever that supplier will supply. That they don’t market skirts for boys is a slightly separate issue I feel. The supplier could easily just remove the gender labels from the clothes and it would largely solve the problem, depending on the age of the children. Until puberty I think the body shape of girls and boys isn’t much different… it’s after that where fit and length becomes more of an issue.
I get the strange feeling it's easy for people to accept a "non-binary" person wearing a skirt as opposed to a "man". It might just be because of how society thinks of skirts on guys, or skirt=woman. It's also a shame it has had to come to this - for people who express themselves differently than how the pack does, that we need to create a new class of person "type"*. I realize "non-binary" goes beyond outward appearance, but just let people be people...


*Perhaps it's their way of finding community or people like them, but all these silos of groupthink worry me greatly. I feel like the internet/social media has greatly accelerated that process.
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Uncle Al wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:46 pm OK - Too get back 'On Course', has there been
any follow-up to the original article/post :?:

Uncle Al
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I was wondering the same thing. So has anyone seen or heard of any follow up of the original article?
Inquiring minds want to know!!!
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by Ray »

Veering off-topic for the briefest of comments: well done, Stu. Valid points.
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by crfriend »

I am a gender-normative heterosexual male. I have a slightly odd sartorial sense by conventional standards. Why should I have to self-identify as something I most certainly am not in order to be accepted? It makes no rational sense.

This is not being obtuse in the slightest.
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

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by Stu » Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:40 am


Mrs K: …. You (not me - another contributor) ask if this means boys can now wear skirts and the answer is yes. Our policy guarantees equal treatment for both girls and boys.

Me: I have looked on the Trutex website and they supply trousers for boys, trousers for girls, and skirts only for girls. So where are boys’ skirts?

Mrs K: Well, if any boy wants to wear a skirt, he could just buy a girl’s one.

Me: So you are saying he should go to school in a girl’s uniform...



Mrs K: I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

I left it there. Was I being obtuse? I think her "new policy" is just another fudge - virtue signalling about how progressive the school is when it is not really giving all students equality at all - it's just catering for trans girls. I perhaps should have asked her why she hadn't contacted the supplier and asked them to label all their skirts as "unisex" and that would have solved the issue.
Stu, I don't think obtuse is the word, but ornery, stubborn, finicky, technical, wordsmithing, and a few more might apply -- let's allow folks to have a B+ grade and give credit and praise for being on the right path; few are living in an academic world considering the nuances of every little detail -- we need not worry if they don't have a Masters degree in skirt equity, and let's not burden them with PHD (piled higher and deeper) standards!
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by moonshadow »

Faldaguy wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:53 am Stu, I don't think obtuse is the word, but ornery, stubborn, finicky, technical, wordsmithing, and a few more might apply -- let's allow folks to have a B+ grade and give credit and praise for being on the right path; few are living in an academic world considering the nuances of every little detail -- we need not worry if they don't have a Masters degree in skirt equity, and let's not burden them with PHD (piled higher and deeper) standards!
Stu can be salty at times, but in this particular exchange with Ms. K, I think he nailed it.

I'll give credit as you suggest, but simply being a man (or boy) who desires to wear a skirt for no other reason other than that he wants to, exactly as it is for a girl who wants to wear pants seems much more simpler than the wide array of "identity politics" that we currently have to navigate.

The Commonwealth of Virginia is a hotbed of transgender politics right now with regards to the public school system. Conservative parents are pissed as hell, and their anger has been at a rolling boil for months now.

It seems it would be so much easier for everyone involved if a boy could just wear a dress for the same reason a girl wears pants. I actually think a lot of these angry conservative types could more easily accept that. I'm not saying they would be FULLY accepting, at least not right away, but nobody could reasonably deny the double standard that exist.

NOW, my comment IS NOT meant to invalidate trans-girls. But just as we have girls that wear pants AND trans-boys, it seems only fair that there should be a place in society for a boy who just wants to wear a skirt.

I would have asked Ms. K however, "what exactly makes it a girls skirt"?

Obtuse? Nah. Difficult? Contrary? Ornery?

A boy kid just wants to wear a skirt, the world insist that to do so he must identify as a girl... now who's being difficult here?
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by Stu »

The point is she was practising double-think. So far as she is concerned:

1. Girls should have rights to wear trousers and whatever they like because... gender equality

2. I have to include trans girls as girls because .... LGBT equality

3. Stuff boys who are not trans. Straight male privilege and all that.

4. Skirts are really only for girls. If a boy wears one, he is making a statement that he is trans.

To be fair to Mrs K, she was using "obtuse" in the British sense as a metaphor:

https://www.lexico.com/definition/obtuse
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

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Stu wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:55 amTo be fair to Mrs K, she was using "obtuse" in the British sense as a metaphor:

https://www.lexico.com/definition/obtuse
It's also a "polite" way to call someone dense.

Stu is actually dead on in his assertion. The new rules are very clearly unequal because they force a "reason" for a male to wear a skirt rather than a simple style choice. The very act then indicates that there's something "wrong" with a male who dares to shove both legs down one pipe -- and that's grossly and profoundly wrong.

Unfortunately in these oh so politically correct times nobody seems to grasp that.
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by Faldaguy »

by crfriend » Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:26 am

Stu wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:55 am
To be fair to Mrs K, she was using "obtuse" in the British sense as a metaphor:

https://www.lexico.com/definition/obtuse
It's also a "polite" way to call someone dense.

Stu is actually dead on in his assertion. The new rules are very clearly unequal because they force a "reason" for a male to wear a skirt rather than a simple style choice. The very act then indicates that there's something "wrong" with a male who dares to shove both legs down one pipe -- and that's grossly and profoundly wrong.

Unfortunately in these oh so politically correct times nobody seems to grasp that.
I should have been more succinct and direct. I agree with the sentiment Stu, Carl, Moon, others have expressed above -- I just think we should pick and choose our battles in ways that we give credit where we can; help educate and bring those who have shown a bit of enlightenment further along; and not make frenemies of those who are at an earlier step on the curve to accepting clothing as just that-- regardless of gender.
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by pelmut »

Stu wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:40 pm [...]
Mrs K: Well, if any boy wants to wear a skirt, he could just buy a girl’s one.

Me: So you are saying he should go to school in a girl’s uniform?
...
That's where it goes wrong. You could have asked: Why are you calling it a "girl's skirt", when it is just a skirt?
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by Uncle Al »

I'ld say that her(Mrs. K.) 'mind set' hasn't grasped the concept that
clothing doesn't have gender. She's still in a 'Victorian' way of thinking.

Just my $.02 worth :)

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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by Stu »

pelmut wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:47 pm That's where it goes wrong. You could have asked: Why are you calling it a "girl's skirt", when it is just a skirt?
The garment is marketed as a "girls' skirt" and in the girls' section:

https://www.trutex.com/girls-contemporary-skirt
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Getting the industry to remove gender tags from clothing is like finding hens teeth.
It is going to take a revolution to do it.
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by STEVIE »

I had a look at the Poltair School website and there is nothing that indicates any change from the school.
Nothing that indicates gender based uniform options either so boys wearing skirts would appear to be a valid option.
There was a specific rule about the skirt being no more than a credit card depth above the knee, navy blue and pleated.
A general rule of not showing bare ankles is also applied across the board.
In this particular case if the boys' skirts had met the criteria it was the staff members who gave them grief who were in the wrong.
The photos show that they didn't which is a bit unfortunate but maybe those teachers just decided to pick a battle with these kids
because they don't approve of non conforming fashion choices.
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Re: Boys skirting the issue

Post by r.m.anderson »

"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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