Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
Ray
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by Ray »

Moon,

I agree with your sentiment. Organised religion is as bad as it is good.

I remain astonished that a US president has to believe in a god in order to gain access to the White House. That’s just crazy.

I’m happy for people who believe in gods or higher beings; that’s for them to decide and take comfort from. However, religion (usually organised) should have no part in State or in education. Nor should it demand the wearing of certain clothing. That applies also to what male and female attire is.
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by denimini »

It seems that many demand the freedom of following a personal belief but they don't like to aford the same freedom to others.
I think the school principal is trying to back pedal - a freewheeler.
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Jim
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by Jim »

Ray wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:55 am

I remain astonished that a US president has to believe in a god in order to gain access to the White House. That’s just crazy.
This is not a requirement. The US Constitution is clear.
..no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. -- ARTICLE VI, CLAUSE 3
I think it very unlikely the president who recently left office had any such belief.
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by moonshadow »

Jim is correct, there is no "requirement", but you don't really stand a chance of even getting on the ballot of you don't profess a belief in the Christian god.

Most politicians just fake it. I personally believe most of them simply worship themselves and raw power, but for what it's worth, I do think some hold sincere conviction, Mike Pence, and Mike Huckabee to name a few. I believe George Bush really believed.

As for Trump...? Ha....that one is obvious. How does the verse go Jim? "By their fruits, you shall know them?" :wink:
denimini wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:22 am
It seems that many demand the freedom of following a personal belief but they don't like to aford the same freedom to others.
I think the school principal is trying to back pedal - a freewheeler
I've often wondered what would happen if two religions clashed in a court of law? The answer is obvious, for Christianity is the only one that really counts legally.
-MS
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by Stu »

With regard to the God debate, it's not something I want to get into. I am an atheist, but not an anti-theist. If someone's belief in an Almighty entity bring them comfort or offer them meaning in their lives, then of course they should be free to follow their beliefs without others criticising them or mocking them and I sincerely wish them well. I will also join them in their struggles where I feel we share a common view on a social issue, which is not uncommon for me. That said, while I have no issue with someone who holds up their scripture and proclaims it as the unassailable Word of God, I have less respect for those who advocate for a religiously-based doctrine that changes according to whatever is currently politically fashionable. So, as an atheist, I have at least some respect for the likes of the Westboro Baptist Church even though I believe they are profoundly wrong, whereas I have zero respect for the woke Church of England. Any religious leader who, following current hegemonies, is constantly reformulating and amending the canon so as to be acceptable by the liberal Establishment is a hypocrite. Here endeth Stu's contribution to the religion thing.

Back to the topic in hand and I don't think the headline story has much relevance for us. So far as I know, in this group we are in no way advocating either for boys in drag, nor are we here to speak for for the youth trans cause. However, if a boy wanted to turn up for school in a uniform school dress or skirt and he was told to change while female students were allowed to wear trousers, then I would argue that is discrimination. From what I am told by family members who work as teachers in the UK, that scenario is not common, but nor is it unknown. The hurdle that we have yet to overcome is that any boy who does this will be assumed to be trans rather than simply a boy expressing a clothing preference. That should be our next battle in my opinion.
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by moonshadow »

Stu wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:43 pm
That said, while I have no issue with someone who holds up their scripture and proclaims it as the unassailable Word of God, I have less respect for those who advocate for a religiously-based doctrine that changes according to whatever is currently politically fashionable. So, as an atheist, I have at least some respect for the likes of the Westboro Baptist Church even though I believe they are profoundly wrong, whereas I have zero respect for the woke Church of England.
An interesting perspective Stu, and one I have frankly struggled with most of my life.

WBC is probably the most true to the spirit of the law of Moses, and thus, likely the most [brutally] honest of the denominations. I can't honestly say they're incorrect... according to the OT, God does indeed seem to "hate fags". *shrugs* it is what it is.

I realize there are a ton of verses in scripture about peace and love and whatnot, but they seem to be counterbalanced by equal bits of hate, bigotry and meanness.

Good for those who use the scriptures to better themselves, I myself just can't digest all of the contradictions, and thus, left the faith a long time ago, choosing instead to explore my soul's relationship with Nature in my own way.

Back to the WBC, I could respect then more if they were sincere, however they've been accused of pulling their shenanigans simply for the sake of winning litigation regarding free speech.
-MS
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by moonshadow »

Stu wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:43 pm
...I have zero respect for the woke Church of England.
That's your right, however I'd be grateful they liberated themselves when they did, otherwise you'd likely be forbidden to wear skirts today, and you certainly wouldn't be allowed to be an atheist.

There was another group who tired of the "liberal" Church of England, they set sail for Massachusetts, and the history suggest, it didn't work out so well for certain people.
-MS
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by Stu »

moonshadow wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:24 pm

That's your right, however I'd be grateful they liberated themselves when they did, otherwise you'd likely be forbidden to wear skirts today, and you certainly wouldn't be allowed to be an atheist.

There was another group who tired of the "liberal" Church of England, they set sail for Massachusetts, and the history suggest, it didn't work out so well for certain people.
I am supporting the right of people to believe what they want - but that doesn't mean I think they have the right to impose their beliefs on others.

I am delighted that some of my forebears decided to sail to and establish themselves in the beautiful state of Massachusetts. I have had the privilege of visiting the Granary graveyard in Boston and reading the names of people who travelled from my part of England in the 17th and 18th centuries to make their home there.
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by Fred in Skirts »

moonshadow wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:43 pm
I've often wondered what would happen if two religions clashed in a court of law? The answer is obvious, for Christianity is the only one that really counts legally.
But what would happen if two Christian religions clashed in court????

Many so called christian religions are as diametrically opposed to each other as day is to night.
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by moonshadow »

Stu wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:49 pm
I am delighted that some of my forebears decided to sail to and establish themselves in the beautiful state of Massachusetts. I have had the privilege of visiting the Granary graveyard in Boston and reading the names of people who travelled from my part of England in the 17th and 18th centuries to make their home there.
That sounds cool. I'll have to check that out. I always enjoyed roaming cemeteries and looking at the older headstones. One thing that strikes me is how high the infant morality rate was 100 plus years ago... lots of headstones of infants. However much past the 1850's the headstones get a little hard to make out.

Headstones going back to the 17th century are not common this far inland, even if they were, I'm sure the writing is practically illegible. But I absolutely LOVE happening upon an old forgotten cemetery in some obscure tract of land. I used to park and roam land that was "for sale". You never know what you might find.

I know of an old cemetery deep off the main road from my childhood. It only had a few headstones, very old, and just some remaining rusted metal markers. It was about the size of a small house, tucked away in the corner of a cow pasture.
Fred in Skirts wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:17 pm
I've often wondered what would happen if two religions clashed in a court of law? The answer is obvious, for Christianity is the only one that really counts legally.
But what would happen if two Christian religions clashed in court????

Many so called christian religions are as diametrically opposed to each other as day is to night.
I guess it depended on the area (state) one lived in. Down south Evangelical Protestantism reigns supreme, I imagine up north the Catholics are in charge, out towards Utah it's the Mormons that hold the keys to power, and in the far west (California), I'm not sure...
-MS
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by Epiceneguy »

Poor Mr Herbert, I wouldn't dream of accusing him of being 'sexists' just dull, stubborn and narrow minded, I wonder what life's like there back in the 1970's 😁
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Re: Boys told not to cross-dress because it's not "normal"

Post by crfriend »

Epiceneguy wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:06 am
Poor Mr Herbert, I wouldn't dream of accusing him of being 'sexists' just dull, stubborn and narrow minded, I wonder what life's like there back in the 1970's 😁
Actually, the 1970s weren't all that bad. Society, as a whole, was a lot less rigid than it is now. When the far right came to power in the 1980s, they reverted the societal norms to what they were in the 1950s. But instead of taking all the context of the 1950s forward, they cherry-picked it and chose the bad -- like societal rigidity and those in power know best -- and discarded things that actually would have helped, like a rational tax code.

That's not to say that the '70s were a panacea; they had lots and lots of problems. But compared to what we've got now, I'd rather deal with the problems of then with the freedoms of then -- and the tools to actually make a positive difference. The tools have since been confiscated and societally we're in a straitjacket.
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