Men’s non-conforming fashion choices

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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Stevej180
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Men’s non-conforming fashion choices

Post by Stevej180 »

This article is a couple of years old, but it didn’t appear to have been posted here. I found it fascinating and frustrating in equal measure and ended up feeling very bullish about not accepting this and emboldened to ‘just do my thing’. There’s no mention if skirts specifically in the article, but it’s very easy to relate to:

https://hbr.org/2017/08/what-happens-w ... rt_art_1x1
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Sinned
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Re: Men’s non-conforming fashion choices

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Yes I've come across these normalisations of business wear. I was once taken aside because I wore a jumper and not a jacket and tie for a formal project meeting when I worked in IT for a big bank. Even though a jumper was my normal day to day wear at my desk in the office. I didn't do it again so go figure. I've never fitted into the wearing of black/navy blue/grey colour scheme. I've always worn bright colours and found great pleasure in doing so and being not "one of the herd", not a a sheeples. Bright blue, yes, yellow, bring it on, purple, red, certainly. The only colours I don't really wear are green or orange. No real reason why not and not deliberately shunned, I just don't.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Coder
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Re: Men’s non-conforming fashion choices

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Great article! Although I am getting tired of the “blame everything bad on the middle-class white male” trope. I fit into that category and don’t behave like one, or at least how these articles all think of them as. In fact I know very few white males who do. I used to have one as a boss (before my current job), but personally I think it’s more of a class of people who wish to be powerful and lord it over others - their influence creates a follow the leader type of effect.

But feel free to prove me wrong. While in other cultures while they may dress differently - I bet the same power dynamic plays out - the people at the top set the ground rules for us little people.
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Sinned
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Re: Men’s non-conforming fashion choices

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Perhaps we Brits are a little more conscious about class divides because I would never consider myself middle-class even though I have had a profession, am degree educated [0], financially stable, house owner without a mortgage. I was raised in a heavy steel working environment and still consider myself working class with a sort of inverse pride about it. In the words of the Ronnie Barker/Ronnie Corbet/John Cleese sketch "I know my place." Or not, as my fashion choices testify.

[0] Even though university degrees are freely available I know very few people with a degree. My daughter-in-law is one.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Men’s non-conforming fashion choices

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I’m pretty sure I fit into the middle-class bracket as american society defines it - that doesn’t mean I have a holier than though attitude, nor would I reject a working-class job if I were unemployed. I’m just being straightforward with where I think I fit in currently.

I’m getting tired of class warfare though, and it goes both ways. We have enough differences that there are better ways to think/talk/write about negative behaviors that doesn’t drop the blame on ME (or ANY cultural group) when I have no control over those traits, but that would take extra effort on the author’s part. I’m afraid to even mention the dreaded TM words :D because that always leads to lengthy discussions where no one seems to agree, but I think of them similarly.
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Sinned
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Re: Men’s non-conforming fashion choices

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I think it all comes down to the definitions of working, lower, middle and upper class being different in our societies. Your definition of middle class being different to ours. Maybe your classes are more based on income. Here it's more complex and is a mixture of breeding, career, education, income, location, upbringing. Over here classes were very rigid and movement between classes virtually impossible. Nowadays there's a lot more fluidity but also, I think, a lot less class prejudice and interest in moving classes. Not being in the top level I have little interest in the class system over here. and if you say that you're middle class then I will accept that. As I said the Barker/Corbett/Cleese sketch sums up our attitude to class quite succinctly.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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crfriend
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Re: Men’s non-conforming fashion choices

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Sinned wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:22 pm
Maybe your classes are more based on income. Here it's more complex and is a mixture of breeding, career, education, income, location, upbringing. Over here classes were very rigid and movement between classes virtually impossible.
In the US, it's definitely down to income (mostly unearned because of the way that tax law is written). Mobility between classes is trivial, but only now in the downward direction.

I was nominally born into what was an upper-middle-class family, the son of a well-educated father and the grandson of an MD. I defied expectations, traditions, advisors, test scores and went into computers. It's paid off well, but I'm getting bloody sick of it, especially the Corporate ********. I've made marks on this world, which is something I would not have had I followed "guidance". For that I am grateful.

In the modern sense, I am a professional who makes his nut based on what he knows, but I identify vastly more with those who work with their hands (as I also do that from time to time, albeit with computers). Thus, I consider myself "working class" when it comes to descriptions. Income-wise, it's a bit different, and my type is squarely in the cross-hairs of the elites, and thanks to the last round of tax "cuts" I wound up forking out four digits to the left of the decimal point (in excess of what the government garnishes) in tax this year (for which I get nothing but more tax bills). The intent, obviously, of that is to drop my class rank -- and that I can never recover from.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
STEVIE
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Re: Men’s non-conforming fashion choices

Post by STEVIE »

Aye if you see me out and about wearing my flat cap and clogs you will be able to classify me immediately.
That's right, you got it in one, a Senior Doctor who earns less than a Plumber.
In many respects the concept of "class" varies across the UK let alone the rest of the world.
In terms of clothing there has been one notable phenomenon recently. The Burberry fashion label was adopted, some would say hijacked by a certain sub class element in Britain.
Further back in the seventies, there was the Suedehead Culture which emulated the "City Gent" look for it's own nefarious purposes.
The Burberry Chavs were highly conspicuous while the Suedeheads effectively blended but it is all based on the preconceptions of the beholder and not much else.
Dysfunctionality exists across society, events at home and abroad certainly bear that out regardless of wealth, rank or genetics.
Possibly all three even?
In terms of skirts for guys though, there are some truly egalitarian attractions for me. Ain't no one going to guess my most venerated professional rank when they spot me in a mini and heels. Ha Ha!
Steve.
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