Not good for our cause

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
User avatar
Rokje
Distinguished Member
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:40 am
Location: Woubrugge, NL

Re: Not good for our cause

Post by Rokje »

moonshadow wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:38 pm
Rokje wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:31 am
My wife and I will avoid visiting the USA when planning a holiday in 2021 or 2022. I'm transgender and I don't like to meet those scary groups in public.
Now let's stop that.

There is nothing statistically to fear in the U.S.

Are things a little more dangerous for a trans person as opposed to any other group? Perhaps, but the risk is still small. For every one trans-person who has a physical confrontation here, there must be tens of thousands who don't.

The biggest threat to trans-people is financial, by ways of employment discrimination, an issue you won't face as you'd be a visitor.

I occasionally see trans women out and about in places like Kingsport TN, and Johnson City TN.

My advice, if you change you mind, is to use common sense. Not to be insensitive, but you must be honest with yourself as to whether you "pass" or not. I know many Trans people reading this are probably getting offended, but your safety is more important in certain situations.

If you're getting "sir'ed" often enough, then yes, you stand a chance of being assaulted for entering a women's restroom, so in that case, just use the men's. Some states mandate this anyway.

States shaded blue on our map likely have transgender protections codified in law. Red states probably don't. ASSAULT IS ILLEGAL IN ALL STATES... YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE YOUR LIFE IN PEACE FROM CALIFORNIA TO MAINE, ALASKA TO TEXAS.

AND our constitution applies to visitors too.

In any case, take time to familiarize yourself with the local (state) laws of any U.S. state your are planning on visiting.

Read the book: Real Queer America by Samantha Allen, who writes about her experience as a trans-woman living in the south... there are challenges, but it's not as bad as you'd think.

I picked this up at the Kingsport TN 2018 PRIDE celebration. It's a good read.

And don't forget, you have friends here!


20201219_113216_resize_95_compress74.jpg
I've had this out since early December (it replaced my other PRIDE flag that was fading, having been out over a year now)...

... nobody has harassed us yet... no scraping eggs of the house, no cleaning toilet paper out of the trees, no busted windows... we did have one homophobic neighbor move away... but is that really a bad thing :wink:
We too have the rainbow flag out for almost a year now. And you got friends over here too.
But some US state law do not recognize the form of marriage my wife and I have. (same sex marriage) You can say that this is not a big deal, until you end up in a hospital. Then we don't got the same rights that you and Jen have.

Over here in Europe there are countries that are not save for LGBT people, like Poland and Hungary. The Netherlands is not perfect, but it is a save place to be with the same rights for LGBT people as any other people living here.

We just sit and wait, and have our holidays in Norway instead until things turn to normal in the USA.
Be proud to wear a skirt or dress, they are just clothes. Yes , they are for men too
I'm Marica, a 56 year old girl.

8)
Faldaguy
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:09 am
Location: Costa Rica

Re: Not good for our cause

Post by Faldaguy »

by moonshadow » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:38 am

Rokje wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:31 am
My wife and I will avoid visiting the USA when planning a holiday in 2021 or 2022. I'm transgender and I don't like to meet those scary groups in public.
Now let's stop that.

There is nothing statistically to fear in the U.S.
Statistics --- more ways to lie and mislead than most any other. For the most part I have found being observant and avoiding known "bad" regions or "bad" actors (don't do drugs, etc.) along with confidence will protect you in most parts of the world. "Crime" means different things in different places; and the concerns for assault, bodily harm and murder probably rank at the top of most travelers concerns. Therefore, I've managed to travel in high crime areas with little concern when it is a matter of pick-pockets or carelessly left belongings; but going to places where personal assault and worse are common SHOULD give you pause.

The UNODC [UN office on Drugs and Crime] provides both country specific and regional data:

Rates are calculated per 100,000 inhabitants.

UNODC murder rates, most recent year[1][note 2]
Region Rate Homicides
Americas 16.3 157,000
Africa 12.5 135,000
World 6.2 437,000
Europe 3.0 22,000
Oceania 3.0 1,100
Asia 2.9 122,000

for regional reporting might suggest you would wish to avoid travel in the Americas; however, if you factor out all but the USA, you get a rate about 1/3 of the whole. If you look at numbers for GLBT... individuals, there is some skewing; and if you take harassments and assaults into account, then the bias shows pretty strongly. Anecdotal reporting which may actually reflect more of the reality since few GLBT folks feel comfortable reporting to police agencies that are themselves often quite biased, you might start to seriously ask if the US is the destination you wish to pursue.

With incidents like the Proud Boy, Patriot folk breaking into the Oregon State Capital with guns today...I'd say Stu, and the folks who want to give them a "pass" based on their Publicly published policy vs their street presence, may want to re-consider reality vs propaganda. Out of the light of the camera, their behavior is likely even less constrained. Sorry, yanks -- I've traveled a good chunk of this world, and though I was born and raised there, served and worked there -- I cannot in good conscience say "statistically there is nothing to fear", especially for minorities as currently exemplified by organizations like BLM, who are rightly alarmed.
User avatar
Rokje
Distinguished Member
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:40 am
Location: Woubrugge, NL

Re: Not good for our cause

Post by Rokje »

I saw a tv series made by a Dutch news reporter living in NY City

He talked with members of the Proud Boys, the Neo Fascist people, and other dangerous extremist groups. I didn't like what I saw. It scared the hell out of me. I traveled the USA from DC to LA, from Fairbanks to Houston. I drove on Route 66 from Chicago to Santa Monica Beach. My memories tell a different story. I met wonderful friendly people across the country. I can not belief what is happening, based on what I know now.
Be proud to wear a skirt or dress, they are just clothes. Yes , they are for men too
I'm Marica, a 56 year old girl.

8)
User avatar
Jim
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1096
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:39 am
Location: Northern Illinois, USA

Re: Not good for our cause

Post by Jim »

Rokje wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:40 am
But some US state law do not recognize the form of marriage my wife and I have. (same sex marriage)
The US Supreme court legalized such arrangements several years ago. Not everyone agrees, but it's the law in every state now.
STEVIE
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2282
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: North East Scotland.

Re: Not good for our cause

Post by STEVIE »

Hi Jim
The law is only half the battle, the winning of the hearts and minds of the people is the hardest bit.
On topic, "Proud Boys" does kind of evoke thoughts of a militant arm for gay liberation.
Even writing that feels judgemental, prejudiced and quite outdated.
Steve.
Dust
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Not good for our cause

Post by Dust »

I saw a post the other day, saying that the Proud Boys chose the kilt vendor in part because he was gay. One of the kilted guys in those pics is apparently gay as well.

Unfortunately, I can't just copy paste the whole thing, but here are the relevant parts:
WE are the kilted badasses you saw in DC this weekend. We loved meeting all of you. We could barely walk 5 feet without getting mobbed for pics, which was amazing. We thoroughly enjoyed talking to each one of you. Americans from all races and sexual orientations represented our country and the diversity of the people that showed us love was overwhelming.

...

The company that made/designed our kilts Verillas has decided to denounce us and discontinue that design.
First let me say that I don't want any hate to go their way. They were awesome to us.
Second we picked THEM specifically because they are an American company AND BECAUSE they are LGBT friendly as one of those men in a kilt IS GAY. Yes there are gay Proud Boys.
It's a shame they engage in the same intolerant and vitriolic attacks they blame us for.

...
I tried to get it accurate, and didn't clean up the grammar or anything, but I probably typed something differently somewhere. The capitalization is theirs. I dropped a bit in the middle asking for pics and a bunch of hashtags at the end.

I don't know the person who posted this or anyone in the Proud Boys, but the post was echoed by an official looking Proud Boys account. Take that for what it is...
STEVIE
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2282
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: North East Scotland.

Re: Not good for our cause

Post by STEVIE »

Hi Dust
I must admit that I did not see that coming.
Steve.
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: North Lincolnshire, UK

Re: Not good for our cause

Post by Stu »

Dust wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:10 am
I don't know the person who posted this or anyone in the Proud Boys, but the post was echoed by an official looking Proud Boys account. Take that for what it is...
This rather bears out what I said previously on this matter, doesn't it?

We have to judge people as individuals.
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 5629
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Contact:

Re: Not good for our cause

Post by moonshadow »

Stu wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:06 pm
Dust wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:10 am
I don't know the person who posted this or anyone in the Proud Boys, but the post was echoed by an official looking Proud Boys account. Take that for what it is...
This rather bears out what I said previously on this matter, doesn't it?

We have to judge people as individuals.
I'm guilty of occasionally judging based on stereotype and other factors...

Regarding my sometimes flamboyant style, I've been shown kindness by people you wouldn't normally associate with tolerance, such as the "confederate redneck" and "conservative" type. I've also been verbally harassed by people you'd have thought would have been more accepting, such as teenagers and young adults, and belive it or not, I have even been laughed at by two men who were holding hands and loving all over each other while we stood in the same line at a restaurant.

Chances are favorable that even among people like the "proud boys", I imagine if you stay out of their way, they will stay out of yours.

I guess you just don't know about someone until you've had a chance to interact with them...
Post Reply