16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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skirts4me
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16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by skirts4me »

Since the current Western Australian government won office in 2017 there has been a campaign called "16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women" starting on 25th November (The International Day for for the Elimination of Violence against Women) and ending on 10th December (Human Rights Day).

On 28th November, all being well, my church will host a one-day workshop on the topic, with a number of professional speakers, one of whom will address a major trigger for violence against women: rigid gender boundaries. That should be a familiar situation for most of us. A while back I wrote an article on the problem. I ask, "if a man is happy to wear Lord Mayoral robes and act as a Lord Mayor for a day - presumably because it elevates his status - why do most men object to wearing a skirt?" Is it because wearing a skirt lowers his status? If so, what does that say about men's attitudes to women in general? Think about the negative comments coming from some quarters, and the refusal to accept change where people don't like it. When men stop thinking of women as third-class citizens and start respecting them for being equals we will have achieved much that is needed to stop the violence against women.
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Stu
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by Stu »

skirts4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:09 am
When men stop thinking of women as third-class citizens and start respecting them for being equals we will have achieved much that is needed to stop the violence against women.
This is anti-male feminist claptrap. Men are far more likely to be the victims of violence than women, but they couldn't care less about male victims (https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/51/f ... o-violence).

Violence against women is often committed by other women, but they couldn't care less about violence when committed by women (e.g.https://www.lawcullen.com/blog/2017/01/ ... n-problem/)

In modern western societies, and most developing countries, almost NOBODY thinks of women as "third-class citizens" - suggesting this is a widely-held view is complete nonsense.

Modern mainstream feminism (as opposed to the more benign equity feminism) seeks to depict men as aggressors oppressors and women as their eternal victims. Some of us men, and many women who are traditional feminists, are sick of it and we are calling them out. Here are a couple of such women - both are feminists and the latter is the founder of Women's Aid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmfCB_IVkOc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnUwxxijr3g

Violence is not a gendered behaviour. Being the victim of violence is not a gendered problem.
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denimini
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by denimini »

Yes, sadly violence against women is still common in domestic situations and places where there is a great inbalance in power. Good for you in becoming involved.
Obviously it will be difficult to get everyone onboard in 16 days as no doubt will be evident in this thread.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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Jim
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by Jim »

skirts4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:09 am
When men stop thinking of women as third-class citizens and start respecting them for being equals we will have achieved much that is needed to stop the violence against women.
I think you are right. This is my secondary motivation for skirt wearing. (I'm selfish enough that comfort is first.)
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by rivegauche »

That there is violence against men does not mean we should not be concerned by violence by men against women. A former partner of mine who is still a close friend had been beaten by her ex-husband. Violence by men against their female partners is a particular problem because the woman is trapped. Cowardly, inadequate men who cannot cope with real women resort to brute force. It is pathetic behaviour that is a blight on society and we should not be trying to draw attention away from this because of other problems. There is a status issue here and if wearing a skirt helps a little, where is the problem. I do not regard women as inferior to men - quite the reverse - but their superiority is based on character not clothing. Skirts can be symbols though and by adopting them we can show support. Some people who are nervous about wearing skirts in their own right could do so and use this as an excuse.
skirts4me
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by skirts4me »

Stu wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:36 am
Men are far more likely to be the victims of violence than women, but they couldn't care less about male victims.
Thanks for your comment, Stu. The programme does not deny that men are also victims of violence, or that men are, in some societies, more likely to be victims of violence than women. All violence is a showing of disrespect for others. This programme is designed to help us stop violence against women, and the evidence points to the main, not sole, perpetrators of that violence being men.
Stu wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:36 am
Violence against women is often committed by other women, but they couldn't care less about violence when committed by women
Who is "they"? The fact that violence against women isn't only a man's problem is part of the programme.
Stu wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:36 am
In modern western societies, and most developing countries, almost NOBODY thinks of women as "third-class citizens" - suggesting this is a widely-held view is complete nonsense.
There are many unrecognised and unchallenged thoughts which are ingrained in our society. Considering the possibility is important. I get reactions like yours and many more saying "I hadn't thought of it that way, but yes, we do treat others disrespectfully." We might say that we don't think about women as third-class citizens, then treat them as if they are.
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by skirts4me »

denimini wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:09 am
Obviously it will be difficult to get everyone onboard in 16 days as no doubt will be evident in this thread.
Thanks denimini. It's an annual programme designed to raise issues in the hope that what we learn during the 16 days this year can change our behaviour between now and next year's programme, and allow us to think more about what can, and should, be done. This is one step at a time in combatting violence wherever and however it occurs.
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by Gusto10 »

Violence against women. In my opinion it's difficult to say what is the cause for situations. One has to take into account the culture, the role of both parties involved, etc. What I have seen is that women are very good at drawing the attention to them everytime using the argument of being surpressed, whilst they are often the more dominant party needed to be pleased. Often enough nothing is good enough. The womens lib network is very strong, even better than the old boys network.
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by moonshadow »

skirts4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:09 am
On 28th November, all being well, my church will host a one-day workshop on the topic, with a number of professional speakers, one of whom will address a major trigger for violence against women: rigid gender boundaries.
I'm interested to know what they allowed on the topic of rigid gender boundaries. Do let us know.

I really don't have a productive comment to add, domestic violence is a complex issue full of variables.

Good luck!
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by Faldaguy »

When I read the opening thread, my first thought was you are gonna hear it from Stu...
by skirts4me » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:09 am

Since the current Western Australian government won office in 2017 there has been a campaign called "16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women" starting on 25th November (The International Day for for the Elimination of Violence against Women) and ending on 10th December (Human Rights Day).
And Stu, you did not let us down! However, like Moon:
by moonshadow » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:29 pm

I'm interested to know what they allowed on the topic of rigid gender boundaries. Do let us know.

I really don't have a productive comment to add, domestic violence is a complex issue full of variables.
Thought I'd delete the "domestic" which leads into Stu's concerns -- indeed there are many kinds of violence and Men are victims as well as offenders, as are women -- and frankly I do not care who is getting the worst of it -- it is all bad -- and anything we can do to find better ways to vent our frustrations is a useful exercise, so I echo Moon's "Good Luck" as well :!:
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by Stu »

I don't want to keep this going, but I would like to provide some insights of my own experiences.

I spent 30-years in the police, and violence was something I dealt with on countless occasions. That included domestic violence as well as other forms, including street violence. I have worked with both male and female victims, and male and female offenders. I discovered very quickly that the stereotype of the violent husband knocking an innocent and defenceless wife around does exist, but this scenario is the exception. One of the complexities is that not all assailants are male and not all victims are female, which has already been pointed out. Another complexity is that male on female violence is more often than not something in which both parties share at least a portion of the blame. It is typical, for example, that violence is the culmination of what starts as a slanging match between the parties. The initiator of the violence is more often the female partner, often by way of a missile thrown at her partner, which could be anything including a shoe of a drink, or a flat hand to the face, or even an implement. This is often followed by some pushing and shoving and eventually punches are exchanged. Males, being most often by far the stronger party, more often end up with little more than a scratched face while his partner gets the black eye. When the police attend, it's almost invariably the male who is arrested - in part because she has the more visible injury and second because it's easier to leave the women in the household, especially where there are children. In other cases, a woman deliberately provokes the man expressly so he will become violent - then she can complain to the police, get him out of the house, demand part of his income and so forth; this is something I have seen many many times. Should a man be provoked to violence? No. But she will know exactly which buttons to press and she will keep pressing them until he eventually snaps.

If you doubt me, don't take my word for it. Listen to a world authority on this; Erin Pizzey is the woman who founded Women's Aid, which is an organisation formed expressly to help women who are victims of domestic violence. She learned, through long experience, that the myth of male aggression v female victimhood is just that - a myth - and she has worked tirelessly to expose it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnUwxxijr3g

If your mind is already made up and closed off to other possibilities on this, then don't bother listening to what she has to say, and disregard my experiences in dealing with these cases.

I will support any campaign that seeks to eliminate violence as I have seen the devastation it causes to people's lives, but treating it as a gendered issue means one is highlighting the victimhood of one sex and guilt of the other, while implying that other kinds of violence are of less concern. And that deeply unhelpful and grotesquely unjust.
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by Sinned »

I spent six months in a social worker capacity in Falkirk, Scotland. One night my companion and I were returning home when we came across a man and woman ( presumably man and wife ) in an argument and he was hitting her. We tried to intervene and calm the situation when the woman turned violent against us so we just backed off, walked away and left them to it.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by Faldaguy »

by Stu » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:40 am

I don't want to keep this going, but I would like to provide some insights of my own experiences.
1
If you doubt me, don't take my word for it. Listen to a world authority on this; Erin Pizzey is the woman who founded Women's Aid, which is an organisation formed expressly to help women who are victims of domestic violence. She learned, through long experience, that the myth of male aggression v female victimhood is just that - a myth - and she has worked tirelessly to expose it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnUwxxijr3g
Hi Stu;

Though about half an hour long I did listen to this through. The woman has a lot of useful insights and obviously a long period in the saddle of helping those confronting violence in their personal lives. And though she does use the word "fraud" and has harsh words for a lot of what she calls radical feminists (and there are plenty) I did not hear her say female victimhood is a myth -- what she did say was that there is a lot of blame to be shared by both men and women.

She is harsh with her damnation of women's organizations that have tried to blame the entire problem on men, and rightly so -- she called the foundation of those organizations fraudulent; but she did not say women victims of domestic violence was a myth. There is plenty of blame to go around; and indeed there is a 'myth' or misconception that the blame lies with men, and not much is written of the fairly common incidence of men being the victims -- although as she points out -- more than half of the time, both parties share the blame.

In part, Men have helped keep this problem hidden, perhaps out of embarrassment of being injured or deliberately provoked by a woman or maybe to protect the women, or.... but whatever the reason, I took a year long graduate course in Women's Issues back in the mid 80's and that phenomenon was being noted in the literature even then; albeit the general public has not widely become aware, accepted or adapted those facts yet.
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by Stu »

Hi Faldaguy

The myth of female victimhood is not a false belief that females can be victims of male violence - of course they can. The myth is that male-on-female violence is a greater issue than other kinds of violence and needs to be placed in a special and elevated category. The implication, which some feminists make explicit, is that men as a class are responsible and share the guilt and that females as a class are victims of male aggression. This is identity politics which has its seeds in Marxist thinking of two distinct groups in society - an oppressor class and an oppressed class. In his perspective, the former was the bourgeoisie and the latter the proletariat. As economic Marxism has been seen to fail, its exponents have shifted the dyadic and the highest tier of oppressor class is straight white men. As you may know, I have been working in academia for the past 12 years and I have seen how this philosophy has permeated the thinking of most university intellectuals and has become hegemonic - and for my colleagues teaching "women's issues" courses, any challenge to this orthodoxy is treated as a massive heresy that would get you drummed out of the university. This has the features of a cult. Of course, it was always the ambition of the latter day Marxists to ensure, as Rudi Dutschke put it, that they would lead "the long march through the institutions". We see it in the police, education, Civil Service and even the military.

I am pleased you recognise that the issue of domestic violence is far more complex and nuanced than the stereotype of a brutal man knocking his wife around, and that both sexes can be both assailants and victims, and that often the supposed victim is not entirely blameless. As that is the case, if we are sincere in our concern to protect the vulnerable, then we should take the gender aspect out of it and campaign on behalf of victims of both sexes, and to educate both sexes in how they should behave towards other human beings. Of course, the feminist lobby won't like that because it takes the focus away from their aim of causing division between the sexes.
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Re: 16 Days to Stop Violence Against Women

Post by Faldaguy »

by Stu » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:18 am

The myth is that male-on-female violence is a greater issue than other kinds of violence
Thanks for the clarification; I think this line succinctly expresses the core of a concern many of us do share -- but casual readers oft get lost as the academics employ the nuanced jargon so dear to their hearts, turning simple concepts into a concoction of word juxtapositions. I tend to prefer the simple language of the street -- perhaps something along the line from The Sound of Music, where a nun is reporting to the Mother Superior her concerns for Sister Maria, and the Mother Superior says Maria just calls a spade a spade; and the rejoinder is, "No, she calls it a f....g shovel"!
if we are sincere in our concern to protect the vulnerable, then we should take the gender aspect out of it and campaign on behalf of victims of both sexes, and to educate both sexes in how they should behave towards other human beings. /quote]

Amen, that is getting to the fundamental core of the larger problem.
Of course, the feminist lobby won't like that because it takes the focus away from their aim of causing division between the sexes.
Do you really think their aim is to cause division; or might it be that over-simplification of a complex issue is easier, and more profitable as Pizzey says than to explain the nuances? Indeed, their shortcoming is dishonest, but do you think it is truly an attempt to create a division of the sexes?
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