Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
moonshadow
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by moonshadow »

Faldaguy wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:54 pm
AND it is precisely that "...and socially acceptable" that seems to be the barrier -- BUT, is the barrier in our mind, or the publics? I think most of us MIS who have ventured beyond our homes have found the barrier was pretty much exclusively in "our own minds". Therein lies the battle!
Well, the logic being that if MIS were socially acceptable (we're not there today.... it's just tolerated, there is a difference between accepting something and merely tolerating it), but if acceptable then chances are good many boys in pretty much every school would already be wearing them.

Alas the only remaining hurdle to cross would be parents. If it were as common as women wearing pants then I'd give my father perhaps a 60% chance of allowing it. Mom, probably closer to 100% When I was a toddler apparently I liked to wear one of those toddler nights gowns, I heard that dad made mom wean me out of the gown pretty quick as he felt it made me look like a "sissy faggot"... [0]

Keep in mind though some families are STRICTLY conservative on such matters, even today there are parents, albeit few and far between, that still require their daughters to wear skirts and dresses.

[0] You know I bet I have some serious physiological reasons for wearing feminine clothing today.... :wink: :lol: Repressed childhood anyone?
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by crfriend »

Faldaguy wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:54 pm
AND it is precisely that "...and socially acceptable" that seems to be the barrier -- BUT, is the barrier in our mind, or the publics? I think most of us MIS who have ventured beyond our homes have found the barrier was pretty much exclusively in "our own minds". Therein lies the battle!
No prison is so secure as the one we create for ourselves -- and this is a classic example of that. We cannot allow fear to rule us, because it rules with an iron fist and is merciless; we need to free ourselves of it. This is not to say, "Go out and do stupid or dangerous things.", but rather to point up that it is possible to shunt much of the fear aside and you'll be happier and better without it. When fear -- especially of the unknown or uncertain -- rears its head, face it and stare it down. You won't win the contest every time, but even if you only win once you're better off -- and if you can win more often than you lose you're vastly better off.
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by STEVIE »

Carl
I'd agree and for so many of us the ability to use that freedom comes late in life too.
In terms of school uniform and boys' clothes in general I suspect the adults would be a tougher sell for gender neutrality than the kids.
The spat in Ireland over the kilt/skirt question was a perfect example.
I reckon that acceptance is still quite a few generations in the future too, unfortunately.
On the plus side I also see my skirt wearing as a demonstration of choice that is not just about fashion.
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by Grok »

Expressions of individuality by kids are all too easily crushed.

As I recall, we had a similar discussion regarding school uniforms in Mexico.

I don't know about Taiwan. (But at least they had male models in skirts).
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by crfriend »

STEVIE wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:22 pm
I'd agree and for so many of us the ability to use that freedom comes late in life too.
In all too many cases, too late...
In terms of school uniform and boys' clothes in general I suspect the adults would be a tougher sell for gender neutrality than the kids.
This might change depending on the demographic and depending on how quickly the generation that experienced the 1960s and 1970s (now parents or even grandparents) decay into a reactionary mind-set. Children can be surprisingly bright, and likely lots of photographs still exist of their parents or grandparents in the peacock-colours of the '60s and '70s -- which the children will rightly pick up on.
On the plus side I also see my skirt wearing as a demonstration of choice that is not just about fashion.
There is that. In my personal case, my style choice is as much a statement about my freedom to set my own path in life as it is about style itself. It's part, "I'm ruddy sick and tired of drab" and part, "This is the way I roll. Deal with it."
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by Chirp »

Its a start in their country and if they keep that option open some might start wearing it,
But white is so hard to keep clean,
No one mess's with a big guy in kilt
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by crfriend »

Chirp wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:47 pm
But white is so hard to keep clean,
Oh so true.

I have worn pure white on only four or five occasions in my lifetime, with likely one of those having been my christening (I'd like to think they smashed a bottle of champagne over my forehead, but somehow I do not think that came to pass [1]). The other times were for the long walk to the gallows at a DDO (Deeply Dysfunctional Organisation) I worked for in the naughties and early teenies, one time where I was trying to "make a statement" [0] at the place I used to eat lunch at, and another time where I just "had to do it". All were fraught with peril. Will I do it again at some point? Likely. I just don't know when I'll have the energy or simple chutzpah to do it.



[0] I was trying to attract the eye of an entirely lovely and vivacious grandmother (I'm old enough for that to be "in range"). It partially succeeded, but when faced with what to order for lunch wasn't thinking straight (imagine that!) and ordered a pizza. The pizza eventually arrived and the bartender asked if I needed anything else. I looked at the pizza, and I looked down at a sea of hot white. And looked at the pizza again. "A drop-cloth, perhaps?" The bartender was no slouch and immediately countered, "Not one of your best life-choices, eh?", to which gales of laughter were to be had. (I miss that guy and his wit -- and he's skewered me a few times -- and has gotten it back.)

[1] Although my father might have gone along with it!
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by Dust »

My read of the article is that this was a fashion designer's proposal for school uniforms, not something actually implemented. Thus, completely impractical in both length and color...
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by trainspotter48 »

As a design proposal, it stands up to practicality a lot more than many other 'concept designs'.
In truth the only real impracticality is the colour - we all know that wearing white is an invitation for any passing dirt to leap up and stick to it!!
Also bear in mind the semi tropical nature of Taiwan's climate.
With the white items created in an alternative colour, the garments could be quite practical even in higher latitudes. There appear to be different lengths available to cover the changing seasons - we just need to overcome the pre-programming that says 'men don't wear skirts'.
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by Stu »

When my daughters were at schools in the UK, they wore simple navy blue or grey skirts that were either A-line or box-pleated, and knee-length. There is nothing inherently feminine about these and so there is no logical reason why they shouldn't be regarded as entirely unisex. The only objection seems to be an arbitrary convention which is the taboo of males wearing something which is called a "skirt". Whether or not this convention can be overturned is a moot point, but doing so would have massive implications for adults as we as schoolchildren. If a 7-year-old boy can go to school in a uniform skirt, then so can a 13-year-old. And if it becomes unremarkable for teenage boys to wear skirts for school, then they can wear them out of school, and designers and retailers will realise that a sea change has taken place in male fashion.

And if that happens, it's over. We will have won.
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by 6ft3Aussie »

I seem to recall one exclusive school in Auckland (New Zealand)'s eastern suburbs which had (or maybe still does) an exchange with a similarly exclusive school in I think the UK or Scotland, where the boys wore (perhaps only on very formal occasions) a kilt, with navy/dark green and white tartan. I only saw it once. I have a friend who went to said exclusive school.

That's probably the most skirt/kilt uniform I have seen boys wearing.

The school I went to, the only kilts well kilted skirts were work by the girls, a Napier tartan. After I finished school, the length of this "kilt" went to about 10 to 15 cm above the ground, much too long in my opinion.
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by Big and Bashful »

I remember seeing an article on the News about a private school in Scotland where the boys HAD to wear kilts at all times, I think it might have been a private school in Helensburgh, but I suppose it could have been a different one. From memory it was a boarding school, so there were boys living in at the school, I remember a clip were some of them went to a football match, kilted as they had to be. I also remember being jealous, they not only had the option to wear a type of skirt, but had to wear it. I don't know if that school still exists.
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by Big and Bashful »

Okay, not Helensburgh, with the gift of Google I have found this here article, Lomond school, mentioned at the end as somewhere not kilty, is the one in Helensburgh:

Kilts were often worn to School. Boys wore kilts to both state and private schools. But the cnventions varied at these different schools. State primary schools catered for children up to about 12 years of age and secondary state schools continued their education up to the official leaving age of 15 (up to 1950 and 16 thereafter) or up to 18 for those going on to university. Private schools (fee paying) were either day schools or boarding schools and covered the age range of 5 to 12 (preparatory schools) and secondary education up to age 18.
Schoolwear
Until the 1960's, normal uniform at state schools was short trousers in primary and in secondary schools up to the 2nd or 3rd years (ages 14 or 15) with long trousers thereafter. The kilt was always a permitted alternative for both primary and secondary state school boys. Numbers choosing to wear a kilt varied by age, by area, and by school. In some areas and in some schools, more than half the boys would be wearing kilts and in others none at all. Up until about 1960, the country primary schools, particularly in the Highlands and South Western Scotland had the greatest number of kilted boys. For secondary schools it was the cities of Inverness, Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh where the kilt was most often seen in a classroom.
Uniform
In a few fee paying day schools a kilt was the official school uniform. More often it was an alternative to short trousers. One or two schools insisted that all boys, even seniors aged 18, wore either short trousers which were regarded as juvenile by the older boys or the kilt, which was much preferred.
At boarding schools, kilts were THE uniform for Sundays, parades, and exeats of all types, including sports fixtures with other schools. Some schools stressed Scottish Country Dancing and of course the kilt was required wear for the lessons. Out of 14 prep schools surveyed a few years ago, 8 still have the kilt as prescribed uniform for the above activities and in 3 it is optional. Three schools do not wear the kilt at all.
Contemporary Scjools
Out of 13 Scottish boarding schools polled in 1989, kilts were still compulsory in 9 of these and optional in one. If they didn't have a tartan of their own boys usually wore Hunting Stewart. At some schools there was also a cadet corps and of course kilts were worn there. These were usually army kilts and were worn for parades, travel to camp, inspections etc. Travel to and from school ws usually in kilt but the boys from England were allowed to dress in other garments, in one case plus fours. By the 1980s, the kilt was only commonly worn at boarding and preparatory schools in Scotland.
Secondary schools
Boys at the following nine boarding schools were required to wear the kilt.
Dollar Academy: Boarders were required to wear the kilt on Sundays for church and on school social occasions such as dances and parties.
Fettes and Glenalmond: On formal occasions boys wore the kilt with a waistcoat and jacket of the registered college tweed. The kilt could be of any personal tartan but all boys in the College are entitled, if they wish, to wear the Hunting Murray tartan.
Kiel: Boys wore a white shirt, school tie, school blazer and kilt as the number 1 uniform. It is worn on Sundays and for special occasions as well as for outings.
Loretto: Sunday garb is white shirt and tie, lovat tweed jacket and the kilt.
Merchiston Castle: The kilt was worn on Sundays and on formal occasions.
Rannoch: On Sundays and special occasions boys dressed is the kilt and Rannoch Green jacket. The dress list for Formal Wear includes, 1 kilt (tartan of own choice), 1 kilt jacket, 1 sporran, 2 pairs of school stockings (Rannoch Green), 2 white shirts, 1 school tie, and 1 pair of black lacing shoes.
Strathallan: Boarders were required to wear the kilt on Sundays for church and on school social occasions such as dances and parties.
Queen Victoria School Dunblane: The traditional ceremonial uniform of glengarry, scarlet tunic and kilt is worn for church and special occasions. In 1966 walking out dress was changed from battledress to highland tweed jacket, pullover and kilt. Highland dancing is still part of the curriculum.

The kilt was optional at:
Edinburgh Academy: Optional formal dress was kilt with appropriate tweed jacket, plain lovat coloured stockings, lacing black shoes, white shirt and Academy tie. A plain grey V-neck pullover and Glengarry or Balmoral hat are further options.
The following three schools did not wear the kilt: Fort Augustus Abbey, Gordonstoun, and Morrison's Academy in Crieff. This was the situation in 1988. HBC has seen earlier photographs from Goronstoun, for example, with all the boys turned out in kilts.
Preparatory schools
The following eight preparatory schools wore the kilt:
Ardvreck, and Crawfordton House: The kilt outfit was worn on Sundays and for outings.
Blairmore, and Cargilfield: On formal occasions boys wore kilts.
Lathallan: Children wear the kilt for church on Sundays and for all other important school events. The tartan is of their own choice.
Loretto Preparatory: The kilt is formal dress on Sundays and special occasions except in the summer term when red blazers and white shorts are worn.
New Park: On formal occasions boys wear kilts.
Queen Victoria (Preparatory School): See above.
The kilt is optional in the following three schools:
Clifton Hall. On Sundays in the Autumn and Spring terms most boys wear the kilt.
Edinburgh Academy and Fettes: The kilt with tweed jacket may be worn for special occasions by boys in the prep school section of these senior schools.
Aberdour Preparatory School: This prep school is not Scottish, but located at Banstead, Surrey. Until 1987, the headmaster allowed any Scottish boy to wear the kilt if they so desired. At one stage, there were as many as 35 kilted boys. They wore the kilt every day, not just on Sundays as is the case in the other prep schools. The kilts belonged to the headmaster at the time, Mr Grange, and were eventually gifted to the Scottish Tartans Society where they are having another useful life being lent out to any boy who wants one and agrees to wear it.
The kilt was not worn in the following three schools: Belhaven Hill, Lomond, and St Mary's
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by STEVIE »

B&B That is quite a list and interesting to note that one of our local posh private schools was boys only but I don't think the Kilt was ever specified as uniform. That was possibly based on the boys wearing their own family tartans or that it just didn't figure in the list.
6'3" Aussie. The green navy white tartan sounds like dress Gordon which the school uses for the girls' uniform kilted skirts.
The name is Robert Gordons College taken from a Duke of Gordon now deceased of course.
The main point is that the skirt/kilt is essentially unisex. The cheapest men's kilts are made in precisely the same way.
Even in Kilt country most folk would not pay any attention to a boy in such a garment especially if it was dressed up a bit with a sporran.
I'd even hazard a guess that would apply to a plain solid dark colour and not plaid.
Hell if I wear a checked skirt out and about I garner fewer stares and that isn't kilted at all.
Stu is perfectly correct that the "skirt" word is the biggest barrier.
Some people would make it sound more like an obscenity if taken in the context of a male wearing one.
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Re: Gender-neutral school uniform collection, including a 'shirtskirt', launches in Taiwan

Post by 6ft3Aussie »

I don't know exactly what tartan I saw, but I have since found out that the formal uniform at this particular school calls for certainly the prefects, both boys and girls to wear kilts, in recognition of the heritage of the school, and that as part of the formal uniform, which is to be worn on Fridays and for formal events. Their kilt is a navy and green.
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