Scottish Hate Crime law

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
Knickson
Active Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed May 08, 2019 7:58 pm

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by Knickson »

Ray wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:10 pm
Knickson wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:51 pm
To be ruled by the corrupt leftist EU is not freedom .
Leftist? Haha! Only if you’re far right. You from Essex by any chance?

To be ruled by a despotic England with an intellectual amoeba at the head is not freedom.

Your move.
Haha ! the EU is far worse than English rule , but you have the Racist SNP in power .....only not as you want EU rule , you want Immigration because the Scots are too lazy to work ? racist again , without the English taxpayer you are stuffed .
STEVIE
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2020
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: North East Scotland.

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by STEVIE »

Knickson
Your own words show the type of person that you are so I don't really have to bother.
However, it would probably be better if you kept your utter nonsense to yourself.
Steve.
Ray
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1259
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:03 am
Location: West Midlands, England, UK

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by Ray »

Seconded.

If you want to debate, turn up with a brain, not a copy of the Sun newspaper.
rivegauche
Distinguished Member
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:05 pm

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by rivegauche »

Agreed. Perhaps even the Sun would stop short of that. Interesting that someone uses this sort of language to describe the Scots as racist.
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 850
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: North Lincolnshire, UK

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by Stu »

My last visit to Scotland was to Shetland. The islands are both beautiful and strange - utterly treeless and wild. The people were also wonderful, kind and warm. I fell in love with Shetland and its inhabitants.

I recall being invited into the home of a total stranger, a crofter and fisherman, and plied with tea and biscuits. We talked for several hours and I asked him what he thought of the idea of independence, which I had mistakenly assumed would be popular in a part of Scotland so remote from London. He said that he had little interest in politics, except that he had "no time for the SNP gobshites" (his words, not mine). I later discovered that Scottish nationalism finds little support in the Northern Isles, and they tend to vote along sectarian lines, which is Liberal Democrat, because of that party's long association with Scottish Calvinism.

If most Scots agree that they want to separate from the rest of the UK and go independent, then they have every right to do that and we should never stand in their way. But the public should be properly informed as to what that would entail, that EU membership would not be readily available to them upon leaving and they would be in for an extended period of isolation in terms of trade. Supposing the EU bent their rules to allow Scotland early entry, they would demand that the Scots accepted several years of technocratic governance from Brussels until they had fixed their dire economy, just as they did with Greece and the first of the diktats would be a demand for years of imposed austerity to bring down their deficit from its present level of 9% to below 3%, which is required for admission to the Euro. So voting for independence would deliver precisely the opposite of independence if the SNP were running the country.
pelmut
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1340
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:36 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by pelmut »

Stu wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:04 pm
If most Scots agree that they want to separate from the rest of the UK and go independent, ...
There are two parties to this arrangement: the Scots and the rest of the UK, don't we (r.o.U.K.) get a say in this?  If not, why not?
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 850
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: North Lincolnshire, UK

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by Stu »

pelmut wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:20 pm
There are two parties to this arrangement: the Scots and the rest of the UK, don't we (r.o.U.K.) get a say in this? If not, why not?
Good point.
rivegauche
Distinguished Member
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:05 pm

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by rivegauche »

It is called self-determination for a reason. Part of our reason is that we are fed up of being taken down routes by the rest of the UK that we don't want, like Brexit and illegal wars. It would be counter-productive for Scotland to permit others to control the outcome of an independence referendum to the extent that it would be a contradiction in terms. It is not the whole of the rest of the UK that wants to control Scotland, just England. Trying to control the outcome of our independence referendum is arrogant in the extreme. Part of the reason for the increasing support for independence is that a Prime Minister we did not vote for is trying to tell us we can't even have a referendum at all, no matter how we vote in elections. When the Scots are pushed around by England we tend to dig our heels in.
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 850
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: North Lincolnshire, UK

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by Stu »

rivegauche wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:01 pm
When the Scots are pushed around by England we tend to dig our heels in.
When British people are pushed around by Brussels, we tend to dig our heels in.

Apart from some Scots who don't seem to mind that.
rode_kater
Active Member
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:46 pm

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by rode_kater »

rivegauche wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:01 pm
It is called self-determination for a reason. Part of our reason is that we are fed up of being taken down routes by the rest of the UK that we don't want, like Brexit and illegal wars. It would be counter-productive for Scotland to permit others to control the outcome of an independence referendum to the extent that it would be a contradiction in terms
Personally I think self-determination is overrated. But giving the rest of the rUK a vote in the matter seems to me to be in the interest of Scotland. Because it gives the rUK government a mandate for the type of negotiations. No matter what, the geography isn't going to change so there is going to have to be an agreement, so what the UK people think is quite important. Rather than being stuck with whatever passes for the representative government at the time.

Like the UK will now be in a permanent state of the negotiation with the EU, Scotland would be in a state of permanent negotiation with the rUK.

I do wonder how many of Scotland's issues would be solved if the UK became a proper federation with clear separation. Just like the parts of Belgium have to agree to any EU trade agreements, it would have given Scotland a seat at the table. But that's water under the bridge now.

As an aside, Scotland joining the EFTA would be fairly straightforward and you can simply apply all the existing legislation. This gives quick entry to dozens of FTAs. This would allow the situation to stabilise before considering EU membership (which would be a long process in any case).
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 850
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: North Lincolnshire, UK

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by Stu »

I am not sure it's true that Scotland joining EFTA would be straightforward. EFTA has full access to the EU Single Market and freedom of movement, so wouldn't that mean it would have to have a hard border with England? And bear in mind that Scotland exports far more to the rest of the UK than it does to the entire EU - and it has no currency or central bank.
rivegauche
Distinguished Member
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:05 pm

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by rivegauche »

Absolutely staggered to see so many thinking that the rUK should have a say in Scottish independence. In the 1970s, Scottish oil rescued the UK from 25% inflation. Never - not once - have I heard anyone in rUK, least of all Thatcher, say "Thank you" to Scotland. Instead you get rUK (for which read "England") gleefully telling the Scots how little oil will be left for us if we jump ship. It is the glee that gets me. What lovely neighbours we have. The oil was in Scottish waters via the Continental Shelf Jurisdiction Order of 1968 but was regarded as a UK asset. Talking of assets, we already have a currency. It is called Sterling. We have co-ownership with rUK. And it might be called the Bank of England but it is a UK organisation and asset. The Scots pay taxes yet we are regarded by some in England as getting donations from the UK Government, by which they mean England. Yes there will be negotiations and at times there will be disagreements but we will get there. We have rUK over a barrel because the UK Treasury has ruled that an independent Scotland will not be liable for any UK National Debt. I have not heard any Scottish politician suggest that we use this as a bargaining tool but it would be useful to negotiate any contribution to this debt with a recognition of how much of Scotland's assets went south to prop up the UK in the 1970s and 80s. You are so fond of telling us we would be an economic basket case on our own. The whole of the UK WAS a basket case until our oil started flowing. We rescued you and this has never been admitted.
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 850
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: North Lincolnshire, UK

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by Stu »

Scottish oil? Or Shetland's oil? Shetland, which is not generally supportive of the SNP, is now considering independence from Scotland if it breaks away from the UK:https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/ ... nd-2968110 The vast majority of what remains of supposedly Scottish oil would actually be the property of Orkney and Shetland if it did. Oil is a natural resource and it has been extracted from British waters: it was not some kind of gift to rUK from the benevolent Scots. Its peak value coincided with a time when the UK's (including Scotland's) deficit was exceptionally high. Now, it is a commodity with a declining value and the largest exported commodity for the UK is financial services, which are largely based in the City of London. Nobody is expecting the Scots, Welsh or anybody else to say "thank you", but England is not threatening to separate off from the rUK.

As things stand, England would almost certainly become a wealthier country if Scotland declared independence and, from what we know, the Scots would be plunged into isolation, years of austerity and some level of impoverishment. I am also aware that many north of the border are as proud to be British as they are to be Scots, and they would be mortified if their nation broke away as would many of us who have ties with Scotland and friends/family there. In my heart, I would be sorry to see Scotland break away, but my head tells me that loss would be followed by some financial compensations.
rivegauche
Distinguished Member
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:05 pm

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by rivegauche »

Yes, things might get a bit tight in Scotland after in dependence. We know this, yet 58% of the population seem to want that. When will you get it into your heads that this is not about money? We have a different agenda from England and apparently a different morality Immigration, illegal war, even food for starving children). What people in England think is neither here nor there and to imagine that they might have a vote in this is fantasy. We have had enough of the English pointing out the problems. We know the problems and we still want out yet we live in a country so morally bankrupt it is prepared to ignore the democratic wishes of the Scottish electorate as expressed at both General and Scottish elections.

If Orkney and Shetland want something different that is a matter for the people of Orkney and Shetland, not for people in England. You are free to keep going on and on about the problems and we are free to make up our own minds and we will. The droning from south of the border is being edited out of the thinking of an increasingly sophisticated electorate in Scotland - we have heard it all many times before and yet we are increasingly ignoring your 'helpful advice'. Knock yourselves out.

Of course the rUK can hardly continue to called itself the United Kingdom any more can it? Not that it did anyway, it keeps calling itself Britain, which rather ignores Northern Ireland. the utter contempt in which the other three countries are held by the English establishment (not necessarly the people of England) betggars belief. And then you actually wonder why we don't feel British.

Despite this, we do not actually dislike the people of England. There are lots of nice people in England. You just keep voting for people like Boris that we hold in very low esteem. You are free to continue voting for public (i.e. private!) school products like this who are anathema to us. The only way we can avoid being governed by a long line of eejits like this is to go our own way. They don't have to be Tories. Blair was educated in Scotland but in a private school but he was regarded in Scotland as a Tory and he is largely responsible for the eclipse of the Labour Party in Scotland. Our home grown Tories are much nicer and more intelligent like Ruth Davidson. The sort of people we want running our show are not the sort of people you vote for so our only solution is to go our own way. We have had more than our fill of the likes of Boris, Blair, Cameron and Thatcher. Once again, this is not about money. It is about wanting something in our future you will not permit us - to be led by decent intelligent people.
pelmut
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1340
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:36 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Scottish Hate Crime law

Post by pelmut »

rivegauche wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:53 pm
...we live in a country so morally bankrupt it is prepared to ignore the democratic wishes of the Scottish electorate as expressed at both General and Scottish elections. ...
The democratic wishes of the Scottish electorate were expressed in the proper democratic way when they were asked to vote on independence, once and for all; they voted 'no'.  If they had voted 'yes' I hope you would be equally happy for them to keep on voting until they came up with the opposite result.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
Post Reply