Wildfires in the US

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denimini
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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Why not produce hydrogen by electrolysis using a sustainable supply of electrical power. (no question mark as it is a rhetorical question :))
There are advances being made in storing hydrogen, once probematic.

.............. and reduce, reduce, reduce. We got addicted to cheap power by plundering stuff from the ground. Once upon a time there were more electric cars on the road than the infernal combustion ones ............ then oil was found.
We don't have to go without but just don't be so wasteful ............ I won't bore you with examples.
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Shilo
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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One of the reasons we’re so dependent upon the ic engine is because of the efforts of JD Rockefeller, working in cahoots with the self publicist Thomas Edison. They persuaded Henry Ford to develop the petrol fuelled device instead of working on alternatives, which he was keen to do. Good news for Rockefeller and Standard Oil. Not so good for the rest of us.
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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Shilo wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:04 pm
One of the reasons we’re so dependent upon the ic engine is because of the efforts of JD Rockefeller, working in cahoots with the self publicist Thomas Edison. They persuaded Henry Ford to develop the petrol fuelled device instead of working on alternatives, which he was keen to do. Good news for Rockefeller and Standard Oil. Not so good for the rest of us.


I've read a number of books on the development of the automobile, auto industry and Henry Ford in particular and never heard that he had any particular interest in electric cars, let alone was dissuaded from pursuing them by Rockefeller. And I can't imagine why Thomas Edison would have championed gasoline driven cars over electric. If anything, his interests laid with electric cars. Their batteries needed recharging and better yet with the direct current he produced. What's your source?
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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Granted some of this is inference. Henry Ford in the early days worked for Westinghouse and he and Edison became good friends. Edison and Rockefeller were business associates and Rockefeller used his influence to ensure the development of the infernal combustion engine.
Much later both Ford and Rockefeller conspired to thwart development of electric vehicles notably by Nikola Tesla. (Hence the adoption of the name by Elon Musk).

I don’t think this is the forum to discuss the character of Edison but suffice it to say he was prepared to do whatever it took to further his ow interests.
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Shilo
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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Granted some of this is inference. Henry Ford in the early days worked for Westinghouse and he and Edison became good friends. Edison and Rockefeller were business associates and Rockefeller used his influence to ensure the development of the infernal combustion engine.
Much later both Ford and Rockefeller conspired to thwart development of electric vehicles notably by Nikola Tesla. (Hence the adoption of the name by Elon Musk).

I don’t think this is the forum to discuss the character of Edison but suffice it to say he was prepared to do whatever it took to further his ow interests.
When using secondary sources always bear in mind the agenda of the author
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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Of note is that electric automobiles enjoyed quite some popularity at the turn of the 20th Century as "about town" vehicles. Given the technology of the time, they were not capable of long-distance journeys -- a problem that's only slowly being solved -- but as around-towners worked quite well. With the rise of the suburb they began to die out as longer ranges than they were capable of arose.
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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crfriend wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:37 pm
Of note is that electric automobiles enjoyed quite some popularity at the turn of the 20th Century as "about town" vehicles.
In London their popularity lasted until the rechargeable batteries needed replacement, then the true cost of running them became apparent and they were scrapped.
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geron
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Re: Wildfires in the US

Post by geron »

Another factor is that electric motors gave a pretty rough ride until modern power converters with silicon controlled rectifiers and triacs came along. Traction control consisted of switching motor windings in and out of circuit, with a big jolt every time you did it. Older readers may remember trains, trams and trolley-buses of that era ;-)
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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geron wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:22 pm
Another factor is that electric motors gave a pretty rough ride until modern power converters with silicon controlled rectifiers and triacs came along. Traction control consisted of switching motor windings in and out of circuit, with a big jolt every time you did it. Older readers may remember trains, trams and trolley-buses of that era ;-)
Jolts sometimes happened when the trams were badly maintained and there were dead sections on the controller or open-circuit resistors, but there were normally several steps of acceleration in each of the series and parallel configurations, so the control was fairly smooth.  Ride on some of the Edwardian trams at Crich tramway museum and you will find they are smoother than a modern bus.  The later designs of motor-driven multi-step controllers, and such innovations as Vambac, gave virtually stepless control.

The smooth ride is one of the reasons a tram is allowed a far greater proportion of standing passengers than a bus.
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trainspotter48
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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There is also the inertia of a 'Light Rail Vehicle' aka tram. It may be 'light', but the chances are it's heavier than the average bus!!
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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When Ford was developing his first car he was working for Detroit Edison. Westinghouse and Edison were bitter rivals. If for no other reason than Tesla virtually invented alternating current and Edison was stuck on direct current, which is the type of electricity produced by batteries.

I don't know why Elon Musk named his car after Tesla, but I expect the facts that Tesla was Eastern European and a widely acknowledged genius and visionary played into it.

Considering how much effort it's taking today to get any range for electric cars, it wouldn't take much for Ford's Model T and other affordable, (reasonably) reliable, petrol-powered autos nail the electric cars' coffin.
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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Pdxfashionpioneer » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:47 am

Considering how much effort it's taking today to get any range for electric cars, it wouldn't take much for Ford's Model T and other affordable, (reasonably) reliable, petrol-powered autos nail the electric cars' coffin.
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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Faldaguy wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:38 am

Surely you are jesting.
I think he meant "it wouldn't (have) taken much for Ford's Model T" ........... not bring back the Model T today (although I would buy one) :)
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Wildfires in the US

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Quite right Denimmini.

Faldaguy, my choice of words suffered from the late hour. For its day, the Model T was relatively reliable and more important, easy to work on. It's range FAR surpassed its electric rivals.

As to how smoothly electric cars started from a dead stop and accelerated two other items: 1) I watched Jay Leno in some automobile-oriented show drive the turn of the century electric car he has in his legendary car collection and I don't remember seeing it lurching and 2) they were very popular with the ladies of the day. It helps that they were quiet, clean and didn't require cranking to start them. But if they tended to toss their passengers around ...
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Re: Wildfires in the US

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

OK

At the risk of being a buzzkill, I'd like to get back to the original topic, wildfires. Recently, my car club took a run out to the edges of the fires that approached Portland. The utter devastation some people suffered from was almost unbelievable. Only almost because it was there for anyone to see.

Equally amazing was how in an area that had a fair number of houses for being out in the woods I saw houses that were literally burned to the ground bracketing houses that were untouched. After I got over my incomprehension, I remembered how too many people take fire safety requirements or standards as either fake news or suggestions made by people who didn't know what they were talking about. Apparently, the people who came up with those "suggestions" absolutely did know what they were talking about.
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