Article on Gucci fashion show

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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Jim
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

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crfriend wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:17 am
Jim wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:00 am
Personally, I might try the orange dress, without the torn jeans.
Of that lot, the only one I would even remotely consider would have been the green/purple rig (if it had a skirt instead of shorts) -- and then I'd not have worn children's shoes with crew-length socks.

Torn jeans should be consigned to the rag-bag or the bin. Full stop.
Yes, the green/purple rig would be decent with a green skirt. I try to ignore the extras such as the shoes and socks shown; they aren't my style at all.

Rags are very useful. But torn jeans can be patched. I like patches. They reflect my value of repair and reuse rather than throw out and buy new.
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

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crfriend wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:42 pm
Freedomforall wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:39 pm
It is bad timing and poor judgement at the very least on the part of Gucci.The biggest question I have is why would they choose this??
Controversy sells; hence it's made liberal use of. That's a sad observation, but one that has held up over time.

I think many people love a good scandal. That is why there are so many despicable reality television shows on now. By the way, I do not have television and have not for almost 25 years now. I had much rather spend my time reading or listening to classical music.

I am not sure that all controversy sells. Skirts for men would be a tremendous success if that were the case. Fashion shows often feature controversial designs that never become for sale. I think many designers still view fashion as art thereby using it to express beliefs, ideas, feelings, etc. I just wonder what the point was of these fashion exhibits.
Last edited by Freedomforall on Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

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Freedomforall wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:56 pm
I am not sure that all controversy sells. Skirts for men would be a tremendous success if that were the case. Fashion shows often feature controversial designs that never become for sale. I think many designers still view fashion as art thereby using it to express beliefs, ideas, feelings, etc. I jsut wonder what the point was of these fashion exhibits.
Consider this possibility. What would happen if somebody managed to hit the controversy of guys wearing anything other than trousers head on, and with sufficient cogency to make the general public wake up to how inane the whole prohibition for skirts on guys really is? I suspect that other than a few really vitriolic reactionaries there would be little backlash and the whole issue would fade into meaninglessness. Who would benefit from that? (Other than men generally being allowed greater freedom of choice in attire.)

I'm not convinced that there's any interest right now, especially given the societal mores of the moment (at least here in the US; it may be better elsewhere). It may be simply a case of trying to push through an open door. I know I've worn skirts very publically since about 2002 and have not have had any meaningful or measurable pushback on the matter. Sure, there's been the occasional crank, but those are easily dealt with.
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

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Actually this is my problem with how big retailers promote skirt for men: always by showing men trying to not appear... too much masculine, I'll say? What the point with that? For most men it is important to keep masculine; with that you won't have any chance to really hit your target. Sure, there are guys who will like this, but that's definitely a small portion of all them. That's reflected in opinions here actually and me too, I wouldn't wear any of them.

For one point, I greatly agree with you Jim: better to repair and reuse old stuffs than just throwing them and buying newer ones (I have a lot of items more than 10 years old and even 20 years old, while I'm 27, that's to say!). And that can have some charm.
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

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Spirou003 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:06 pm
For most men it is important to keep masculine;
That is certainly how I feel: I want to stay distinct from anything overtly feminine and the idea of clothing which copies the styles of little girls is a bit nauseating and would probably only appeal to someone with some kind of fetish.

I do think some styles presently worn by girls could be opened up for boys of the same age though - within reason. I remember many years ago my wife and I taking our daughter for a fitting for a bridesmaid dress for a cousin's wedding. My wife knew the shop owner and they were chatting, although there were other customers. One boy, aged around seven or eight, was clearly bored while female family members were trying things on and he was paying quite a bit of interest in some of the strikingly colourful party dresses, feeling the fabrics as he did so. He realised the shop owner was watching him and he immediately stopped and looked a bit embarrassed. She smiled and made a comment to him something like "It's the girls who get to wear all the nice stuff, isn't it?" He scurried off. I have no doubt it was just a bit of curiosity on his part, but that is fuelled by the limited and often drab options boys have.
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

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Stu wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:31 pm
One boy, aged around seven or eight, was clearly bored while female family members were trying things on and he was paying quite a bit of interest in some of the strikingly colourful party dresses, feeling the fabrics as he did so. He realised the shop owner was watching him and he immediately stopped and looked a bit embarrassed. She smiled and made a comment to him something like "It's the girls who get to wear all the nice stuff, isn't it?" He scurried off. I have no doubt it was just a bit of curiosity on his part, but that is fuelled by the limited and often drab options boys have.
And, sadly thus he was "put in his place". What might have happened if he'd had the chutzpah to stand up and say, "Indeed that is true -- and why should it be so?"

I get called "handsome" often enough, and every once in a great while manage to garner a comment of "pretty", but the ones I cherish are where the comment makes the jump from "pretty" to "beautiful". I do not know about anybody else here, but I have no problem with that observation in the slightest. ("Pretty" does bother me a bit, though, and I can't put my finger precisely on why.)
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

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Many years ago I could well have been that boy.
I was "put in my place" too. I then spent too damn long fighting my way out, what a waste.
I also cannot see this collection as suitable for minor males unless the Mums and Dads got on board with it. Highly doubtful and certainly not in the volume required by the mass retailers.
Ironically, I could see it as a fashion that could be adopted by some girls, perhaps in the 17 to 20ish age range.
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

Post by rivegauche »

If the big clothing retailers could somehow make it more socially acceptable for men to wear skirts and dresses it could help them dig their way out of the hole they are currently in. There is a truly massive EXTRA potential market out there. The other thing that this thread has made me think about is the number of male designers of womenswear who are clearly obsessed with the stuff they design - but as far as we know none of them wear it (at least of the big names). How could you put all that effort into creating beautiful clothes and then not wear them? I know most of the male designers are gay, but I don't see what that has to do with it.
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

Post by skirtyscot »

Clicking through the article to the fashion show, and you find that most of the skirted outfits are modelled by women. Not so very radical after all.

The outfits are almost all terrible.
Keep on skirting,

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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

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STEVIE wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:05 am
Many years ago I could well have been that boy.
I was "put in my place" too. I then spent too damn long fighting my way out, what a waste.
Children are grand-masters at detecting inequity and unfairness -- and they are way too often "put in their place". Why, in this case, should boys be placed into an "Apparel Apartheid" where their sisters aren't? And that notion carries forth into adulthood. I think it's wrong, and always have. However, challenging those mores takes more guts and chutzpah than most kids have, or allowed to have.

What's worse is that I cannot see any major retailer defying the Apartheid until it's brought down forcefully.
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

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by skirtyscot » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:39 pm

Clicking through the article to the fashion show, and you find that most of the skirted outfits are modelled by women. Not so very radical after all.

The outfits are almost all terrible.
I certainly concur with that assessment. I don't seek these sites out so my awareness of range may be limited; but the times I come across showings, regardless of venue, it seems the intent is more to shock or just emphasize the wild, extravagant, or absurd -- as much as the 'brokini' on another thread -- just ridiculous. Unless you seek it out, you can frequent hundreds of shops and all the streets in NY and seldom see the weird 'designer' things in daily use. So, I don't think we should turn to designers to set the stage or start the march toward MIS as a common thing. My suspicion is that most of us who wear skirts daily generally tend to blend into the mainstream of what is already on the street -- and that is what is going to bring more folks into accepting MIS, or becoming a man in a skirt rather than any radical "man skirt' design from Paris, or NY, or even with a great name like, Alice Springs!
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

Post by Dust »

crfriend wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:42 pm
Freedomforall wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:39 pm
It is bad timing and poor judgement at the very least on the part of Gucci.The biggest question I have is why would they choose this??
Controversy sells; hence it's made liberal use of. That's a sad observation, but one that has held up over time.
Controversy gets attention, and you need people to look before they will buy.

This junk won't sell, but people hear about the brand as a result of this stunt, and might buy their more reasonable stuff...
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

Post by Dust »

FranTastic444 wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:26 pm
LifeSiteNews - described on Wikipedia as "ultraconservative" and a "known purveyor of misleading information".
Wikipedia is leftist and a known purveyor of false information. So what?

For the record, Life Site News is primarily a single issue news and activism site focused on combatting abortion. They make no secret that this is what they are about. It is why "Life" is in their name.

They also address cultural issues seen as related to that, including bioethics, pornography, marriage and family, education, LGBT stuff, and religious matters.

It should also be noted that this piece was listed in their "blogs" section, not as news.
crfriend wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:09 pm
Freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:36 pm
I guess being ultra conservative means you have to be ultra hateful, intolerant, angry, and closed minded.
It's also a misuse of the term "conservative"; the proper term in this instance would be "reactionary".

If one senses anger in an article then it should serve as a bit of a red flag indicating that there's something more going on with the writer than just the subject matter that's being written about.
I didn't sense any anger, and quite frankly, their observations were accurate. Various reactions to the styles in the "fashion" show from members here in this thread were in agreement...
pelmut wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:37 am
I just found a video of the author proclaiming he is a reformed gay man.
A comment like that is enough to totally discredit him; he sounds like an ignorant self-publicist with a problem, who can't even be bothered to check a few facts.
So anyone who leaves the "gay" lifestyle is now discredited in all things, ignorant, and has their facts all wrong? Talk about ad hominem. If anyone is discredited by what you just wrote, it is you, not the author of the article. Grow up and address his points, not his person.
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

Post by Dust »

Stu wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:22 am
Grown men emulating little girls? No thanks. I find that a bit disturbing. By all means extend ranges like these to boys of the same age if there is a market for them (which I doubt), but for grown men it smacks of being a fetish.

We don't need this.
Well said. I think the bold portion is exactly what the author of the article was trying to point out, even if he might not be an advocate for men in skirts.

I think those who put this show on were looking for controversy and keeping their name in the news, and quite frankly don't actually want men in the street to wear skirts...
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Re: Article on Gucci fashion show

Post by Dust »

Stu wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:31 pm
I remember many years ago my wife and I taking our daughter for a fitting for a bridesmaid dress for a cousin's wedding. My wife knew the shop owner and they were chatting, although there were other customers. One boy, aged around seven or eight, was clearly bored while female family members were trying things on and he was paying quite a bit of interest in some of the strikingly colourful party dresses, feeling the fabrics as he did so. He realised the shop owner was watching him and he immediately stopped and looked a bit embarrassed. She smiled and made a comment to him something like "It's the girls who get to wear all the nice stuff, isn't it?" He scurried off. I have no doubt it was just a bit of curiosity on his part, but that is fuelled by the limited and often drab options boys have.
I read this story, and give the shop owner the benefit of the doubt. I don't think she was trying to put him in his place at all. I read her statement as empathizing with the boy. He probably was freaking out about having his curiosity found out, and feeling that he was "caught" showing interest in something forbidden. I can empathize as well. That double standard, identified at a similar age, was an early step in the journey that landed me here.

I have no idea what a better approach on her part would look like, however. Perhaps a simple "go ahead, it's fine to be curious" or something similar. What do you all think?

Perhaps no reaction could have eased his fears right then. Society, unfortunately is a very cruel and unforgiving place for boys. That is what really needs to be fixed.
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