Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
Coder
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Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by Coder »

From 2012:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dents.html

Don't like the article title, but, whatever.

I only linked to this because of this quote from the article:
'In my day, it would have been unthinkable – men were men and women were women, and we dressed accordingly. But I think the university is just saving itself from a silly row, and from that point of view I'm on their side. Why go courting a silly row when they don't need one?'
Honestly, even in 2012, I can't believe they quoted that. Reminded me of a famous quote that everyone should know:
“In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.”
I also found the comment section... interesting. The upvoted comments were positive, but take a dreadful turn as you go down the page.

Ray
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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by Ray »

That’s the Daily Wail for you - it’s readers are so narrow minded, they could look through a keyhole with both eyes.

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denimini
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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by denimini »

At least men can wear skirts there now, regardless of the original reasoning for changing the dress code.
Probably if wouldn't have happened if it was argued on comfort and equality grounds.

" ..........they no longer need to ensure their 'sub-fusc' – the clothes worn with full academic dress – is distinctive 'for each sex".
Simple enough.
'If men want to prance around in skirts, that is entirely up to them.
Sounds like something out of Monty Python
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia

Stu
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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by Stu »

"'If men want to prance around in skirts, that is entirely up to them."

Who said anything about prancing? How about them just wearing a skirt to graduate? Or do women "prance" when wearing trousers?

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Freedomforall
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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by Freedomforall »

Ray wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:44 am
That’s the Daily Wail for you - it’s readers are so narrow minded, they could look through a keyhole with both eyes.
I like your comment and will have to use frequently where I live.

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Freedomforall
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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by Freedomforall »

'In my day, it would have been unthinkable – men were men and women were women, and we dressed accordingly. But I think the university is just saving itself from a silly row, and from that point of view I'm on their side. Why go courting a silly row when they don't need one?'

This cliche is very similar to one that I hear all the time, "I remember the good ole days."
What exactly were "the good ole days"? The good ole days realistically are an idealistic view that evolved in people's minds over the passage of time.
This is the same with the saying, "men were men." The definition of men and women was not anymore clear then, than it is now. I suspect the idea of men and women has always been evolving and yet still undefinable. This is evidenced by the colorful clothing men wore in the 17th century. Can you imagine the comments made when the first man stepped out wearing a wig, stockings, and high heels?! Seriously, you know men didn't just suddenly appear wearing these things. It had to start somewhere. Someone had to be that guy.

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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by crfriend »

Freedomforall wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:14 pm
This cliche is very similar to one that I hear all the time, "I remember the good ole days."
Or the corollary cliche to the above, "Where men are men and sheep are nervous."

In "days of yore" (and I refuse to call 'em "the Good Old Days") roles were more rigidly defined not so much by society but by technology. Men tended to be the "beasts of burden" and perform the hard labour required to make a family survive and the women were very much in a support role for that. Changes in our technology (e.g. we're not doing everything now by brute force) has had the effect of changing the way our society works because now most basic tasks do not require brute force. On a modern construction site, a woman driving a backhoe with a hydraulic hammer on it can bust up rocks just as fast as any man going; that's one example of how things have changed. The interesting thing is that nobody questions a woman operating a machine on a construction site, but a stay-at-home father is the butt of all manner of jokes and ridicule.

As far as fashions go, it was pretty much the French Revolution that shut down the ostentation of the male wardrobe because that was a flag of royalty, and that was decidedly out.

Then there was Beau Brummel. He's said to be still alive and well in Paris; it's just that nobody can find him because he blends in so well.

First it was trousers for riding astride horses (it you've ever been atop a horse and there was any bare skin touching you'll know what I mean), then the cultural drain of the French Revolution, then finally the advent of the Victorian era where we were becoming increasingly mechanised without necessarily really understanding the nuance, but knew that getting a skirt caught in a machine "was not a good thing". The decline of the "peacock" has been going on for a long time indeed -- although not all that long, really, in an historical sense.
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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by moonshadow »

Freedomforall wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:14 pm
This cliche is very similar to one that I hear all the time, "I remember the good ole days."
Ah yes I've heard of those days...

No penicillin, so a simple infection could be deadly...

Amputating limbs on the battle field with a hack saw and a shot of whiskey

Pulling teeth with no local anesthetics

Cocaine in coca cola

The KKK marching in Washington

Segregation

No women votes

Local creeks and rivers that ran purple and green with pollutants

Child labor

Matrimony at age of puberty

Asbestos

Lead

A mostly illiterate populace

Education that ceased at the sixth grade

Anti-crossdressing laws (that also applied to women)

No labor laws

No overtime pay

Dangerous work places with no oversight (no OSHA)

Peoples love lives highly regulated



But yeah... I guess if you were a straight white Christian man who fancied taking home a 13 year old mountain girl for your wife, and didn't mind the fact that your occupation would make a old man out of you at the age of 35... then yeah... whatta time to be alive!
-Moon Shadow
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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by PatJ »

Gee, Moonshadow, you are making me long for the good ole days.

:lol:

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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:38 am
Ah yes I've heard of those days...
Well, let's do a comparison: The Good Ol' Days versus Today In America

No penicillin, so a simple infection could be deadly... No access to basic health care unless one can pay extortionate "insurance" premiums
Amputating limbs on the battle field with a hack saw and a shot of whiskey See above.
Pulling teeth with no local anesthetics See above.
Cocaine in coca cola A wuss version with little more than sugar, caffeine, water, and fizz
The KKK marching in Washington The KKK sans white sheets sitting in Congress
Segregation Ghettos
No women votes Idiots still being elected to office
Local creeks and rivers that ran purple and green with pollutants Flint, MI. However, overall, this actually has gotten better, but came at a high price
Child labor Still legal for some things, mainly agriculture and family enterprises
Matrimony at age of puberty Ages of consent frequently set at laughably low values
Asbestos Still useful if applied and treated carefully
Lead Ditto.
A mostly illiterate populace A populace that's becoming increasingly illiterate by the day
Education that ceased at the sixth grade "Teaching to the test" and not how to properly form an intelligent opinion
Anti-crossdressing laws (that also applied to women) "Self policing" using social pressure and bullying
No labor laws Labour laws that are ignored because nobody enforces them
No overtime pay Overtime granted in only some situations and then grudgingly or salaried positions instead of hourly wages
Dangerous work places with no oversight (no OSHA) OSHA not doing its job because workplace safety requires time, money, and smarts
Peoples love lives highly regulated Potty bills and social pressure

Yeah, "The Good Ol' Days" sucked, but we're headed right back into them, eyes wide shut. The more things change the more they stay the same.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!

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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by PatJ »

You make a lot of good points.

May I add that here in Wisconsin, they passed laws that certain labor unions
are considered illegal - ex: teachers, government workers, etc.

With no negotiation power, teacher salaries are not attracting students to
enter into the teaching profession, and a shortage of teachers is starting
to require larger class sizes etc.

Things are not improving - and I (for one) have lost confidence in our
political process for positive change.

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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by oldsalt1 »

Its sad how some people could have such a depressed outlook on things

especially when they are sitting in their warm house wearing what they want most likely after a good meal playing with their computer during their free time.

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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by moonshadow »

oldsalt1 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:46 pm
Its sad how some people could have such a depressed outlook on things
I'm good, and certainly thankful for what I do have.

As for the politics of current events, I'm in a bit of a charmed situation these days. My state just went liberal for the first time in history....

So I figured I'd give them a chance, if the muck it all up... no sweat, I'm in a good position to vote with my feet and move to red Tennessee, just a short 25 miles or so south. Makes me no nevermind.

I've traveled far and wide in Tennessee in skirts and have always been treated well there. In fact it had a more positive vibe than when I visited the eastern side of Virginia a while back.
-Moon Shadow
"How do you propose to control me when you can't even control yourself?"

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denimini
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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by denimini »

oldsalt1 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:46 pm
Its sad how some people could have such a depressed outlook on things

especially when they are sitting in their warm house wearing what they want most likely after a good meal playing with their computer during their free time.
Yes, I am OK too ............ but many are not ............ and I can't help thinking about them ............. and future generations ............ and other living things ............. sorry.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia

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Re: Old article about Oxford's dress code change

Post by moonshadow »

-Moon Shadow
"How do you propose to control me when you can't even control yourself?"

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