Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

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moonshadow
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by moonshadow »

oldsalt1 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:20 pm
I have a great deal of compassion for this child he or she has a very tough road ahead .
Most definitely.

As for the teacher, I admit I haven't followed the story that close, but I will say that in most cases I'm aware of, teachers are obliged to abide by court orders.

The state always has final say when it comes to minors.

Of the teacher acted contrary to a court order then she will answer for it.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

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Did the teacher offer a dress to the child after the court order or before it?
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by pelmut »

oldsalt1 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:20 pm
First the teacher had no business sticking her nose into the act. She was in direct conflict with the wishes of the child's parent.
No, she was only in conflict with one of the parents; if she had done the opposite, she would have been in conflict with the other parent.  I haven't noticed you condemning the thousands of crowdfunders who gave the father money to ensure that his view was better represented than the mother's; weren't they far more guilty than the teacher for trying to influence the result, rather than just offering the child a choice?
And you mentioned a non-pressured choice by the mother

Do you think that continually telling him it was ok to be a girl providing girls clothing and than changing his name was not pressure on the part of the mother
Is that what happened?  I don't recall reading that and I can't think of any reason why the mother would want to do that.  I can think of plenty of reasons why the father would oppose the idea that his 'son' was really his daughter (mostly reflecting on him).  This is such a common scenario: a colleague of mine was beaten black and blue by her father in an attempt to "make a man" of her, a family I know was torn apart by the father's refusal to accept his daughter for what she really was.  On the transgender forums this is one of the commonest stories.  I have never come across a single instance of a mother forcing a cisgendered child to dress as a transgendered one; if you know of any verified examples, please let us know.
Tell me when you were growing up did your mother beat you over the head with everything she wanted or at times did she make gentle suggestions and you did things her way because you wanted to please her.
Neither, she told me what to do and I did it ...or else!  When I was a bit older, I asked her to teach me to cook, she refused and said that was women's work - so I joined a cookery evening class at the local college
I have a great deal of compassion for this child he or she has a very tough road ahead .
I agree, but not for the same reasons as you.  I just hope we won't be adding this child's name to the list of suicides in a few years time.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by oldsalt1 »

pelmut wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:19 pm
Did the teacher offer a dress to the child after the court order or before it?
It was when the father had custody so it would have been after the4 court order
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by oldsalt1 »

If the mother sent the child in one way and the teacher interfered she would have been just as negligent.

Did the crowd funders come in direct contact with the child.

As for my compassion for the child you have no idea what is the driving force behind it

This is my final comment on this subject because i can see that between you and uncle Al the comments are getting personal. and I don't wish to cause this subject to be locked
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by moonshadow »

I will say this kind of thing is how teachers get in trouble. I wont say whether what she did was right or wrong, but I do believe she put herself in an unnecessary situation where she could be held liable, thus was probably unwise on her part.

Any concerns the teacher had for the child should have been turned over to the school administration.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by moonshadow »

I just took a quick gander at some of the links in this thread....

Good God what a mess!

That kid is likely damaged for life, and it's got nothing to do with this trans thing.

The kids parents are insane.... I mean, can you just imagine what kind of crap is going down behind the scenes in that home??
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by Uncle Al »

My comments about "letting things go" comes from history, potentially repeating itself.

Yes Dan, your comments came across in a way you didn't mean(as you clarified later).

We were not flies on the wall, watching & listening to everything that happened in the family.
The "context" of the 'opinions' was becoming a bit heated, which was a RED FLAG on my radar
screen. I posted a comment, asking members to let things rest/cool down, trying to avoid/prevent
any further flame wars.

I haven't read all of the "reports"(biased or unbiased) about the child in question. BUT, the "reports"
are mostly 'opinions' by the authors/writers, none based on personal experiences with the child & family.

So, PLEASE, let this thread rest for awhile. Check the 'media reports' in a couple of weeks or months,
to see if anything new has developed, then post the info here - in an unbiased manor - PLEASE :!:

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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:04 pm
The kids parents are insane.... I mean, can you just imagine what kind of crap is going down behind the scenes in that home??
This sort of parental behaviour is astonishingly common in divorce and custody processes as the parents, each with their own agendas and axes to grind, face off. Usually, the child winds up the loser as the child becomes a pawn for each parent to manoeuvre around to gain advantage.

It's bad enough when two childless adults go at it; add children and it gets truly distressing. 95+% of the time the mother "wins", the father becomes an ATM with a limitless daily draw-down, and the mother "lives the good life" until the alimony dries up once the kid is out of college.

I have a lawyer friend who practises "family law" and who has quite the share of outright horror stories.

We really don't have enough "hard information" here to allow us to prognosticate.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by Dust »

pelmut wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:41 pm
I have never come across a single instance of a mother forcing a cisgendered child to dress as a transgendered one; if you know of any verified examples, please let us know.
Okay, this ones not a mother but a grandmother. But I hope it's close enough to make the point that it's not outside the realm of possibility. It does happen.

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/04/14688/
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by Daryl »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:14 am
Daryl wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:02 am

I dislike both positions and don't see them as being the only 2 positions one "can" take. (Have you noticed how many times the word "can" comes up?) I am not in either camp.

The problem is turning observations about masculinity, femininity, and sexuality into imperatives.

The problem is not whether or not there is anything substantial to the categories, but whether or not we should enforce those categories.

Sometimes, often, we seek to preclude enforcement by denying the substantiality of the reasons for it. But what if some of the reasons are not easily denied? For example, femininity is more than merely randomly-chosen social conventions. It derives from observing females in aggregate over large numbers and large amounts of time. It is substantial. Even so, what possible reasons are there to turn the substantial observed features of femininity into either obligations or restrictions on individuals, and under what conditions, if any?

My camp, call it Camp 3, is to say that without good reasons, no enforcement of sex-related norms on individuals should happen. I would also say that this should be enshrined as a default position; a right. From Camp 3 all we have to discuss is what constitutes good reasons.
Maybe so, but we don’t live in your version of Utopia and we all need to deal with the world as it is. Gender has been a social norm since the beginning of time. And social norms are enforced.
Oh puhleeze PDX. My "version of utopia"? And now after months of championing changes to social norms you want -- your version of utopia -- you expect me to believe that "deal with the world as it is" is your real advice?

You can't really want to change the world yourself and expect to be taken seriously when you advise others not to bother.

You know, there is really quite a long history of social norms changing. It's not hopeless at all. Cheer up!
Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:14 am
4. Can we please watch our verbiage and drop such expressions as “the trans agenda?”
For the record, there isn’t one that I know of, except to be accepted as the people they are. Isn’t that an “agenda” we can all support?
Rhetorical piffle. There is an active trans movement. Ever heard of a movement without an agenda? It's really in plain view, not at all hidden. Heck, I think there's even a manifesto or two around somewhere.

Balderdash and rhetorical piffle: If being accepted as "the people they are" were all there was to it, we'd have nothing to discuss. Our disagreements are always about what that actually means, and what is to be actually done to achieve it.

And what's this "please watch our verbiage" thing anyway? Are we playing "I'm the adult in the room" now?

I'm out of the discussion of the youth being caught in a war over puberty blockers. You decided to quote my response to someone else in this thread about something that was not even part of the thread's original topic. Maybe we just like being seen as taking on all comers, hmm?
Daryl...
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by pelmut »

Daryl wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:12 am
There is an active trans movement. Ever heard of a movement without an agenda? It's really in plain view, not at all hidden. Heck, I think there's even a manifesto or two around somewhere.
I've heard a lot about it in the media but I have yet to meet anyone who claims to be part of it -- or who would want to be part of it.  The transgender people I have met have only one 'agenda': to be allowed to get on with their lives in peace.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by pelmut »

moonshadow wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:04 pm
...The kids parents are insane.... I mean, can you just imagine what kind of crap is going down behind the scenes in that home??
Mother:
Paediatrician, professionally identifes her own child as transgender at the age of five.
Obtains a second opinion from a qualified professional therapist (later confirmed by others).
Allows child a choice of clothing and gender identity (currently-recommended best practice).
A jury awards mother custody of the child with access by father.
Under investigation because a Governor considers ‘Transitioning of a Minor’ to be Child Abuse.
Custody revoked by a judge.
Threatened and viciously attacked by complete strangers.
House window broken.
Forced to close her practice.

Father:
Lied about his career, his previous marriages, his income, his education and military service.
His six-year marriage was anulled because it was entered into under fraudulent terms.
Acted aggressively toward the older daughters, withholding their possessions, locking them in their rooms, and forcing them to do “plank push-ups” until they agreed to follow house rules.
Shaved the childs head whilst allowing twin brother to grow longer hair.
Didn't turn up for several child access visits.
Started a crowdfunding and merchandising scheme based on lies and debunked outdated reports.
Named the child's school on social media, making other parents afraid the bullying would spill over onto their own children.
Criticised by judge for making a profit from a violation of his family’s privacy.
Failed to follow the recommendations of the counselor or the paediatrician.
Missed several appointments with medical professionals, claiming to want opinions from other providers (which he didn't follow through).
Ignored the advice of the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, the Endocrine Society, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and others.
Last edited by pelmut on Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by moonshadow »

Ohkay....

Mother: Apparently stinks at finding good men...

Seriously, thanks for the list, but yet the mind boggles as to how two people so opposed right down to their basic wiring could manage to have a relationship, or have children for that matter...

Something is amiss here. I suspect media spinning to some degree.

Nevertheless, I still say it's gotta suck to be that kid!
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Post by moonshadow »

pelmut wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:46 am
Daryl wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:12 am
There is an active trans movement. Ever heard of a movement without an agenda? It's really in plain view, not at all hidden. Heck, I think there's even a manifesto or two around somewhere.
I've heard a lot about it in the media but I have yet to meet anyone who claims to be part of it -- or who would want to be part of it.  The transgender people I have met have only one 'agenda': to be allowed to get on with their lives in peace.
Just about every, or to be technical... every activity that requires more than one step requires some type of "agenda".

If a trans person has ever formulated a "plan" to achieve a desired goal, that person likely worked off an "agenda", be it written or mental.

Hell... a "to do list" is technically an "agenda".

"What's on your agenda for today?"

"I've got to run to Walmart, stop by the insurance office, grab some lunch, then I've got a dentist appointment this afternoon..."
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