CNN article

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
dillon
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2716
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: southeast NC coast

CNN article

Post by dillon »

As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...

User avatar
SkirtsDad
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 645
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:03 am
Location: Hampshire, UK

Re: CNN article

Post by SkirtsDad »

Interesting article with some wonderful photographs. A pity the church once again seems to have been be the cause of predudice and suffering amongst these people.

I came across this in the linked paper "the diminished social status of māhū on O‘ahu is a social justice problem that calls for analysis. However, the subject matter of this article is significant also for instrumental reasons: in particular, it provides a compelling case study to investigate the role that law plays in influencing the construction of gender and sexual identities." I think it probably ties in with discussions in some other threads but also it could be seen as relating to skirt cafe in terms of the way clothing is restricted by biases in the law that still allow companies to permit certain garments to be worn by certain genders and or sexes only.

User avatar
Sinned
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 4206
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: York, England

Re: CNN article

Post by Sinned »

Yes, Sd, mostly the pressure is a conscious one by management in defiance of the current stance in law that such barriers are illegal. Take my example. I work in retail and the dress code dictates a company provided top and fleece, black trousers or knee length skirt, black socks and shoes. No mention of a particular sex for the skirt or trousers meaning that women can wear either and in theory so could men. We even have an Equalities Policy which we have to read annually which strengthens the position of a man wearing a skirt. But in discussions with store managers it has been expressed that I would be looked on in extreme disfavour if I came to work in a skirt. Their position is that a segment of our customers are elderly and would probably not be able to accept a male staff member in a skirt. Perceptions again. They could make things difficult for me in short hours and difficult shifts. So I don't wear a skirt to work to preserve what little favour I have at work. I do go in sometimes in my own time though to talk with colleagues whilst I have a skirt on. I do what I can to break down barriers.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.

User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
Posts: 11438
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)
Contact:

Re: CNN article

Post by crfriend »

Sinned wrote:[... I]n discussions with store managers it has been expressed that I would be looked on in extreme disfavour if I came to work in a skirt. Their position is that a segment of our customers are elderly and would probably not be able to accept a male staff member in a skirt. Perceptions again.
I definitely think this is perception and a lack of clear thinking. A diligent male employee should be able to counter the initial startle-reaction of the customer by simply doing his job and being helpful. "What are you seeking? I believe I may be of assistance." might be a god opening line. Even if the customer might be initially a bit flustered, a calm staid response of, "Oh, that's down on Aisle 32 in Section B. Shall I guide you there?" really ought to be enough to do the trick.

But, yes, old habits and stereotypes can take years, if not decades, to break down.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!

User avatar
Pdxfashionpioneer
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1327
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:39 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA

Re: CNN article

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Dennis, if you really would like to wear a skirt to work, talk to your corporate Human Resources Dept.

And don't be afraid to name names.

I am sure they will be more than happy to set those Store Managers straight. And HR will keep your name out of it if you ask them to.

As to your managers' concerns about how will the customers react, I'm 69 and one of the younger members of my church's congregation and you know how I have been received there! In my experience, the older people get, the less of a damn they give about convention.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.

User avatar
JohnH
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:46 am
Location: Irving, Texas USA

Re: CNN article

Post by JohnH »

Or in my rude and crude way of expressing myself, it's nice to be an old geezer. If an old geezer is a little bit crazy, so what? It's no big deal. :D :D :D

John

Ralph
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: CNN article

Post by Ralph »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:And HR will keep your name out of it if you ask them to.
"A completely anonymous employee whom you won't be able to identify in this completely anonymized report has complained that he or she is being bullied for expressing a desire to wear skirts to work."

Yeah, good luck with that.
Ralph!

User avatar
Daryl
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:25 am
Location: Toronto Canada

Re: CNN article

Post by Daryl »

One good link deserves another, in this case one inspired only by a photograph in the referenced page, with no claims whatsoever about its relevance or even relatedness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWGKwNt9NY8
Daryl...

User avatar
Sinned
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 4206
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: York, England

Re: CNN article

Post by Sinned »

Ralph, probably a misprint on your part ( she ) but a girl could wear a skirt at work and there are some that do on occasion. But a report to HR of a man asking to wear a skirt would certainly not be anonymous knowing what my colleagues know about my clothing choices. Sometimes being in a category of one has its disadvantages. :D
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.

Gusto10
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:07 pm

Re: CNN article

Post by Gusto10 »

Sinned, have you ever considered a black utility kilt as attire for work. I guess it would fit the regulations.

User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 4912
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Appalachian Mountains (VA)
Contact:

Re: CNN article

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote:
Sinned wrote:[... I]n discussions with store managers it has been expressed that I would be looked on in extreme disfavour if I came to work in a skirt. Their position is that a segment of our customers are elderly and would probably not be able to accept a male staff member in a skirt. Perceptions again.
I definitely think this is perception and a lack of clear thinking. A diligent male employee should be able to counter the initial startle-reaction of the customer by simply doing his job and being helpful. "What are you seeking? I believe I may be of assistance." might be a god opening line. Even if the customer might be initially a bit flustered, a calm staid response of, "Oh, that's down on Aisle 32 in Section B. Shall I guide you there?" really ought to be enough to do the trick.

But, yes, old habits and stereotypes can take years, if not decades, to break down.
Since when do people really "think" or go so far as to consider the other guys position?

People do complain, I know. I've received reports of people complaining about me. Granted, those in power dismissed the complaints, but still yet the prejudice is ripe. My former landlord got a complaint from one of his campers (he also ran an RV park behind the house I rented) regarding my "crossdressing" (as he put it).

My landlord dismissed the complaint and told the camper basically that if it bugs them that much, they are free to leave.

But make no mistake, some people do try to cause real problems over this, and some management may not want to deal with it, and just prefer the employee act normal. Is it right, or fair? Nope... but that's the way it is.

The good news is things are changing and getting better. We are already light years ahead of where we were 20 years ago.

Just keep chipping away at it.
-Moon Shadow
"How do you propose to control me when you can't even control yourself?"

User avatar
Daryl
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:25 am
Location: Toronto Canada

Re: CNN article

Post by Daryl »

moonshadow wrote: Since when do people really "think" or go so far as to consider the other guys position?
Where do I click to +1, like or upvote this post?
Daryl...

dillon
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2716
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: southeast NC coast

Re: CNN article

Post by dillon »

Although Tahitian culture seems in this regard more advanced than Western culture, it seems to still segregate, even if into three cubbyholes rather than two. I think cubbyholes are invalid in total. What’s wrong with allowing people to define themselves? Maybe a feminine man, or masculine woman, fits too close to the boundary of society’s sorting pens. Why must anyone define him/her-self (or themself for those for whom language has no relevance) voluntarily pigeonhole him/her-self to suit those who can’t understand that gender and physical sex characteristics are not necessarily linked.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...

weeladdie18
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: CNN article

Post by weeladdie18 »

Sinned wrote:Yes, Sd, mostly the pressure is a conscious one by management in defiance of the current stance in law that such barriers are illegal. Take my example. I work in retail and the dress code dictates a company provided top and fleece, black trousers or knee length skirt, black socks and shoes. No mention of a particular sex for the skirt or trousers meaning that women can wear either and in theory so could men. We even have an Equalities Policy which we have to read annually which strengthens the position of a man wearing a skirt. But in discussions with store managers it has been expressed that I would be looked on in extreme disfavour if I came to work in a skirt. Their position is that a segment of our customers are elderly and would probably not be able to accept a male staff member in a skirt. Perceptions again. They could make things difficult for me in short hours and difficult shifts. So I don't wear a skirt to work to preserve what little favour I have at work. I do go in sometimes in my own time though to talk with colleagues whilst I have a skirt on. I do what I can to break down barriers.
The risk assessment with regard to the nature of the employment should be scrutinised before the employee is issued with his safe and suitable work wear
by his employer.....The male and female staff may be working on the same floor under separate grades performing different grades of work....

Manual lifting and climbing access ladders are two examples of varying levels of tasking .

On a slightly different level , as far as I am aware , part time workers at Tesco Supermarket are now being asked to sign a new contract of employment .
Failure to comply will result in termination of their employment . This news is only just breaking on the media .

weeladdie18
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: CNN article

Post by weeladdie18 »

Some of our members have reported some degree of success in wearing their skirts to work.
Other members do not consider it is not worth the aggravation of being a Man in a Skirt in a working environment .
One may become a target in a company staff cull.

Post Reply