Uncle Al wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:52 pm
Shilo wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:54 am
Did you not listen to uncle Al ? Definitely severely off topic. At least start a new thread. I am a new member but I don’t think anyone is doing the forum any favours
Thanks for your support Shilo, it is thoughtful and greatfully appreciated by the Admin Staff.
To put it quite bluntly - - IF THIS THREAD DOESN'T GET TURNED AROUND, IT WILL BE LOCKED
The clock is ticking - - - - Don't let it run out before this thread has been set straight on the tracks
Honestly, I don’t see much vitriol here—not at least since I chimed in to respond to a post of BobM's. Yes, I do see strong positions being taken, and an uncomfortable conversation, and certainly a discussion that has veered wildly from what it was initially about. Yes, I haven’t read the forum rules in a while, so it might very well be that it is against the rules for a discussion to diverge from its original topic. That being said, unless people are actually hurling insults at each other, which I don’t see, and, unless it really is against the rules for a discussion to diverge from its original content, I really can’t see why people are poohpoohing this phase of the discussion.
That's because I have seen lots of threads in this forum go off topic, without anybody complaining about it. If this is an inaccurate observation, please correct me. But, if not, then, my own impression is that there is much more to the Admins' attempts at tamping this down than merely going off topic.
One possibility is that this topic differs from others in that it is a hotbutton issue, and is likely to lead to flame wars. But, there likely are others.
Regardless, I feel like it is an unfortunate aspect of our society that we discourage uncomfortable conversations such as this, and further that people have difficulty having uncomfortable conversations without talking past each other (which I agree is happening).
In light of this, if you really don’t want discussions to veer into uncomfortable territory, here is what I suggest: if you can, try to prevent them from happening in the first place.
While I take full responsibility for resuscitating this particular topic, I wish to point out that I would have said nothing had some people acted with proper decorum, and not said inflammatory/disrespectful things in the first place.
We all know that trans people/allies don’t like it when somebody calls trans people delusional, or indulges in any of the myriad other such tropes. You all know what I am talking about, and so I won’t spell the rest of them out. So please, if you don’t want people to “go there”, then please try to quash it before it even starts by telling offenders to knock it off. And non admins, just don’t egg people like me and Pelmut on by saying inflammatory things.
Honestly, you can avoid most gaffes if you just put yourself in the other guy's shoes and ask if he would take offense (this goes for my side, too). And yes, it should matter to you whether you offend people or not. This is not your house. It is a (relatively) public forum, where strangers from all walks of life come to discuss one particular thing that they have in common. I should hope you wouldn't consider it proper to walk into a science fiction convention, and call atheists lost, or walk into a religious conference and call Evangelical Christians delusional. And I certainly would hope that if you did act with such imprudence, you would have anticipated the escalatory nature of your actions. So, just as with those two examples, you should choose your words wisely, when talking about transgender people in a forum where a significant percentage of the members are likely to sympathize with them. But I digress.
Let’s be honest. This topic of transgenderism is going to keep coming up. And if people keep saying the same old inflammatory things, then it's going to keep becoming heated (and again, this goes for both sides). It is an unfortunate side effect of both the topic or this forum and living in our current society. However, if we can establish some explicit ground rules about this topic in particular, then I see no reason why we can’t keep things civil when it inevitably comes up again. Forgive me if you have already done this.
Please note that I am not absolving myself of any responsibility, here, though for my part I did try to keep things respectful. Also, please note that I do understand that moderation is difficult. I don’t mean to be harsh, and I apologize for the role I played in making things difficult for you.
Just understand that from my perspective, I see an uneven playing field, where all to often, a person defending themselves or others from an aggressor is castigated with the same amount of oppobrium as that aggressor, even though they were just reacting accordingly (a problem almost every online forum suffers from). I understand that others probably have a different perspective.
All this being said, Stu, please don’t take any if the things I have said in this post to be about you. Moreover, I feel I made an unfair assumption about you. While I do disagree with some of what you said, I don’t feel you deserve to be called a bigot based on this recent exchange of words. I would certainly like to respond to some of your points elsewhere. You seem like a reasonable person now that you have qualified your position.
Anyway, that’s all I have to say for now. Writing on a phone is hard work. Sorry for any typos