The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

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The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby shadowfax » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:59 am

There is an opinion piece in The Guardian (UK) today, arguing for more men to wear skirts.
'Masculinity is a trap – which is why more men should wear skirts' - by Arwa Mahdawi

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ear-skirts
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby TheRod » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:02 am

This a good article because it doesn't posit a precondition of trans/gay for a man to wear a skirt or dress. Rather it shows that such garments should be in the normal range of clothing for men, regardless of their sexual identity.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby moonshadow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:07 pm

It is sad that so many men are petrified about seeming effeminate.


It's not just men, women are equally "petrified" about having skirt wearing (effeminate) men in their lives. Most may be cool with skirt wearing men... just not their man.

And to be fair, while most women wear pants and men accept it, they are skin tight and show every curve. Men seem to not be as attracted to women who wear more "masculine" outfits.

It is what it is.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby Stu » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:22 pm

Beware of False Friends!

Why should men wear skirts? In my view, we should be able to wear them to extend our otherwise ridiculously and unnecessarily limited fashion options. As straight men who have no inclination towards crossdressing, skirts are either a strongly masculinity-enhancing choice, as with such as Utilikilts, or at the very least a neutral and practical option, as we might find with unisex garments such as those sold by Skirtcraft.

Arwa Mahdawi, however, is a radical feminist with a very different agenda. To those of her ideological persuasion, masculinity is something toxic to be eschewed. She sees herself as a victim of a largely imaginary oppressive societal group called "the patriarchy" which is fuelled by the masculinity she hates. Anything she says in her writing is an expression of that view and she has precisely zero interest in extending male's choices to give men and boys something closer to sartorial equality with women and girls. Now, however, there are some feminists who have started adopting a strategy to defeat masculinity by feminising men as a means of eradicating the hated masculinity. To achieve that, they portray men not as people for whom masculinity is a natural human trait exhibited by men, but as something limiting. They seek to tell men that we are victims of own masculinity. We mustn't fall for it.

Mahdawi and her ilk are not seeking to liberate us, but to diminish us. Men wearing skirts is not a feminist issue: it's a men's rights issue and we must not let her beloved sisterhood hijack it.

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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby moonshadow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:39 pm

Hello Stu

Yeah I kinda got that vibe too. But seeing as how this type if rhetoric makes up 50% of media coverage (with hyper-masculinity making up the other half) I mostly dismissed it.

It's nice that she seems cool with men wearing skirts... but the $64k question remains... "would she date one?". Probably not.

As for this masculine/feminine nonsense.... I'm sure I'm criticized by people in all camps and groups. I am what I am. If some of my characteristics happen to be feminine... then that's just what it is. I'm not going to rewrite my brain just to make it acceptable to various social causes.
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Re: Neutral Life Style.

Postby Grok » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:49 pm

Stu wrote:Why should men wear skirts? In my view, we should be able to wear them to extend our otherwise ridiculously and unnecessarily limited fashion options. As straight men who have no inclination towards crossdressing, skirts are either a strongly masculinity-enhancing choice, as with such as Utilikilts, or at the very least a neutral and practical option, as we might find with unisex garments such as those sold by Skirtcraft.
I have thought about a sort of neutral lifestyle option for men, as an alternative to traditional masculinity. A sort of safe harbor for males who aren't Trans, yet don't relish being trapped in a very narrow sex role. I am thinking of options that would come to be seen as tolerable for a male, if not really part of traditional masculinity.

In terms of clothing, the most radical option would be open ended garments that are unisex.

Other possible options for personal expression:

1. Jewelry.

2. Eyewear. (I believe Moon Shadow started a thread about that).

In terms of behavior, the most radical option that comes to mind is the egalitarian marriage. In which husband and wife are considered equals, rather than the husband being dominant (the traditional patriarchal position).
Last edited by Grok on Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby STEVIE » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:35 pm

Grok wrote:In terms of clothing, the most radical option would be the unisex skirt.



Unisex, in my mind skirts already are, the really radical question is, would you be happy to pay a premium for an amended label?
If the retailers thought that it would boost their profits we would certainly see the availability spike.
Sartorial boundaries for men will only diminish if we push them back and don't wait for permission either.
The motivation of the writer may not actually be as important as the audience it reaches. Surely if it opens any minds to the wider possible freedoms for men it cannot be bad.
I actually agree with Moon that acceptance will have arrived when skirt is of no relevance when a guy is seeking a date.
Pessimistic or cynical but I'd sooner bet on predicting a cold day in Hell. Just for the record, that is one I'd happily lose.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby Grok » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:01 pm

STEVIE wrote:
Sartorial boundaries for men will only diminish if we push them back and don't wait for permission either.
Unfortunately, I am forced to agree with this.

Despite the hopes of members, no body will help us.
Last edited by Grok on Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby partlyscot » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:05 pm

I see myself as masculine. A male. I do some things, and wear some clothes, that would tend to be associated with femininity. Not always the clothes, so much, as to why I wear them. By the mainstream definition, I think most would label me as "gender non-conforming" I don't really have any need to label myself as such, this is just for the purposes of discussion. My attitude is that such behaviour should not be labeled feminine, it should be a perfectly valid option for men (or women) of whatever stripe. I have found that since wearing skirts full time, it has increased my confidence, and my feeling of masculinity. Go figure.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby Grok » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:26 pm

It just occurred to me that I am getting into a bad habit of ranting. I will try to avoid posting to similar threads in the future.

My apologies.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby crfriend » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:54 pm

STEVIE wrote:Sartorial boundaries for men will only diminish if we push them back and don't wait for permission either.

I'm not sure if it's my New World English, but I suspect that there's a missing "don't" in there betwixt "we" and "push". We're alone in this endeavour lads; I see no relief coming from over the hill.
I actually agree with Moon that acceptance will have arrived when skirt is of no relevance when a guy is seeking a date.
Pessimistic or cynical but I'd sooner bet on predicting a cold day in Hell. Just for the record, that is one I'd happily lose.

That, truly, will be the pivotal moment, and whilst I'm tempted to place the same wager as Steve I would be just as happy to lose it.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby crfriend » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:39 pm

Stu wrote:Arwa Mahdawi, however, is a radical feminist with a very different agenda. [...] To achieve that, they portray men not as people for whom masculinity is a natural human trait exhibited by men, but as something limiting. They seek to tell men that we are victims of own masculinity. We mustn't fall for it.

We must not confuse true masculinity -- which is a very broad spectrum -- with the dime-store narrow parody that is machismo. The radical feminists have been encroaching on a version of masculinity for some decades, and have largely won the war by shoving the men into the parody role -- all the while retaining the role of the "damsel in distress" when they so desire. If we confuse masculinity with machismo we're handing them a victory. The agendas are vastly different as are the inherent behaviours.

Real men laugh, they also cry; they look after themselves and those around them (note: if one doesn't look after himself, he's more likely to be "part of the problem" than "part of the solution") and cannot play the "damsel in distress"; real men hate, they also love, frequently with more passion than they hate. Note the dichotomies in the above. Men have to balance all of that all of the time, and it's complex; women, societally, don't.

So, yes, what we clothe ourselves in is our issue, and if we don't assert on that issue nobody is going to do it for us -- certainly not those who would tear us down.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby TheRod » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:37 am

It is clear from many comments on this site that many men feel very limited in their clothing choices. They fear censure from society, both from men and women. This behaviour is self limiting.
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby Mike » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:37 pm

TheRod wrote:This behaviour is self limiting.


Yes, once you clear the demons out of your own head, you'll find out that nobody cares what you are wearing. The most important thing you can wear is confidence.
Mike

Who the hell is 'society' anyway?
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Re: The Guardian - More men should wear skirts

Postby Sinned » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:56 pm

Carl, I think that you're right about the don't. I missed it but then maybe subconsciously added the don't because, at the time the meaning was clear to me. If we don't push back the boundaries then our choices become more limited. Less really as boundaries rarely stay stationary.
Last edited by Sinned on Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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