Another reason I hate Tennessee

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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby moonshadow » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:49 pm

greenboots wrote:As I noted before, members of SC are generally articulate and well-able to reason and many of us openly acknowledge our religious beliefs. Hence there seems no excuse for constantly bashing people of faith, or implying that all "devout" people must of necessity be bigotted religious zealots.


I respect your thoughts on the matter, but as a European I feel you really can't fully grasp the level of theocracy we have here (in the U.S.), especially in the southern states.

I fully expect many localities to enact laws to criminalize crossdressing once more and our evangelical court system will uphold every bit of it, and it will be to pacify the national religion. And I know that most members here don't consider themselves "crossdressers", make no mistake, legally, we are.

Enjoy it now... it won't mast much longer. Skirtcafe, will likely have to be hosted on foreign servers as.... I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the "free internet" is getting smaller and smaller. It won't be long we'll have Asian style censorship protocols in place. It's already a thought crime to proclaim...... (not going there.....)
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby mishawakaskirt » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:42 pm

moonshadow wrote:
greenboots wrote:As I noted before, members of SC are generally articulate and well-able to reason and many of us openly acknowledge our religious beliefs. Hence there seems no excuse for constantly bashing people of faith, or implying that all "devout" people must of necessity be bigotted religious zealots.


I respect your thoughts on the matter, but as a European I feel you really can't fully grasp the level of theocracy we have here (in the U.S.), especially in the southern states.

I fully expect many localities to enact laws to criminalize crossdressing once more and our evangelical court system will uphold every bit of it, and it will be to pacify the national religion. And I know that most members here don't consider themselves "crossdressers", make no mistake, legally, we are.

Enjoy it now... it won't mast much longer. Skirtcafe, will likely have to be hosted on foreign servers as.... I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the "free internet" is getting smaller and smaller. It won't be long we'll have Asian style censorship protocols in place. It's already a thought crime to proclaim...... (not going there.....)


I know I don't live in the southern states, but i don't think we will ever start enforcing anti cross dressing laws. There has been way too much other stuff ok Ed. With all of the PC mindlessness. One call to the ACLU and it would probably be reversed.

I don't remember where I heard this or read it. A crossdresser carried white tube socks in his car for the cross dressing laws in his area. The claim was if pulled over by the cops. He would slip on the socks. The municipality laws, stated that if you had at least one piece of male clothing on, they couldn't arrest you for cross dressing.

Being obnoxious, or taking pictures of kids or women, etc might get you locked up.
Police general have bigger issue with the public than a man in a dress or skirt.

I feel like I am more likely to get locked up for being a Christian than for wearing skirts.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby moonshadow » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:20 pm

mishawakaskirt wrote:I know I don't live in the southern states, but i don't think we will ever start enforcing anti cross dressing laws. There has been way too much other stuff ok Ed. With all of the PC mindlessness. One call to the ACLU and it would probably be reversed.


I hope you're right, you probably are. But that doesn't mean we should lay our guard down.
mishawakaskirt wrote:or taking pictures of kids or women, etc might get you locked up.


As long as you're not upskirting or photographing people from private property it's perfectly legal to take pictures of other people....

... all that said it's probably not worth getting your camera smashed.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby Daryl » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:30 pm

skirtyscot wrote:Geez, Daryl, how much time did you waste typing that?


All of it, obviously.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby Daryl » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:39 pm

moonshadow wrote:
greenboots wrote:As I noted before, members of SC are generally articulate and well-able to reason and many of us openly acknowledge our religious beliefs. Hence there seems no excuse for constantly bashing people of faith, or implying that all "devout" people must of necessity be bigotted religious zealots.


I respect your thoughts on the matter, but as a European I feel you really can't fully grasp the level of theocracy we have here (in the U.S.), especially in the southern states.

I fully expect many localities to enact laws to criminalize crossdressing once more and our evangelical court system will uphold every bit of it, and it will be to pacify the national religion. And I know that most members here don't consider themselves "crossdressers", make no mistake, legally, we are.

Enjoy it now... it won't mast much longer. Skirtcafe, will likely have to be hosted on foreign servers as.... I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the "free internet" is getting smaller and smaller. It won't be long we'll have Asian style censorship protocols in place. It's already a thought crime to proclaim...... (not going there.....)


A dark apocalyptic mood that is.

Canada survived the attempted American invasion of 1812 and will still be here when you need to escape that future dystopian America!
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby Big and Bashful » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:40 pm

rivegauche wrote:If I can enter this "debate" without offending ...

It is unscientific to say God does not exist. You cannot prove that. All you can say is that there is no evidence that God exists. I call myself a non-believer, not an atheist. As a scientist, I have never felt the need to insult those who believe, or insult their beliefs. I may criticise when it comes to their attempts to restrict how others behave, however.

There are many people who call themselves Christians but attempt to impose rules on others that they have extracted from the OLD Testament. They have done so selectively. If you have problems with men wearing women's garments then you must also have problems with people wearing mixed fibres. Never a word about that.

If we want people to stop criticising us for what we wear perhaps we should live by the same principle and refrain from criticising others for their religious beliefs. The belief itself does no one any harm and can be a great source of comfort to the believer. It is only when that belief is imposed on someone else that it becomes a problem. Same applies to atheism. Live and let live.

End of sermon.


Erm, just read this tonight, probably a bit late but I am going to chip in now: I do not believe in a supreme being, call it God, call it fairies, call it any other figurehead you care to. However, I fall short of believing there isn't one, although I don't believe in ghosts my Nan was convinced that she had had an encounter with her husband, years after he died, in a good way. For some reason I actually find it easier to believe in the Supernatural than in some supreme being who created the world in 7 days etc. and who is letting mankind destroy the only planet it has to live on. I don't believe there isn't one, simply, I don't know, when I die, if I see the pearly gates of heaven and the thought of an afterlife, my thoughts will be "Oh bugger! not another one! (life)"
To be honest, I am not a believer, either for or against, I don't think of myself as an agnostic, more as an apathetic, I don't really care, I will find out in the not too distant future! I have a sister who does the God thing, running a large group of Methodist churches, good for her! we just don't talk about religion. I also don't go to visit in a skirt in case that causes friction. Unfortunately I don't tend to visit them much anymore, they are getting on for 200 miles away and live in a manse, I cannot stand wall to wall carols etc. being thrust down my throat and just stay home where I can feed my cats and stick whatever skirts I like on.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby Daryl » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:02 pm

Big and Bashful wrote:probably a bit late but I am going to chip in now: I do not believe in a supreme being, call it God, call it fairies, call it any other figurehead you care to. However, I fall short of believing there isn't one, although I don't believe in ghosts my Nan was convinced that she had had an encounter with her husband, years after he died, in a good way. For some reason I actually find it easier to believe in the Supernatural than in some supreme being who created the world in 7 days etc. and who is letting mankind destroy the only planet it has to live on. I don't believe there isn't one, simply, I don't know, when I die, if I see the pearly gates of heaven and the thought of an afterlife, my thoughts will be "Oh bugger! not another one! (life)"
To be honest, I am not a believer, either for or against, I don't think of myself as an agnostic, more as an apathetic, I don't really care, I will find out in the not too distant future! I have a sister who does the God thing, running a large group of Methodist churches, good for her! we just don't talk about religion. I also don't go to visit in a skirt in case that causes friction. Unfortunately I don't tend to visit them much anymore, they are getting on for 200 miles away and live in a manse, I cannot stand wall to wall carols etc. being thrust down my throat and just stay home where I can feed my cats and stick whatever skirts I like on.


I like the coining of "apathetic". I am an atheist but don't much like the connotation of "anti-theist" that is too often included in our understanding of what it means to be atheist.

I can't, won't, say that my mind is not made up. As far as I am concerned there is no point in keeping a place at the table for a hoped-for supreme entity. That would be as non-useful as the various UFO landing pads built in various communities during the height of that public phenomenon. Not only would it not be useful, it could also be dangerous, because as soon as you admit the possibility of a supreme entity then some people take it as leave to insist that they not-only "know" there is one but also know what He/She/It requires of us. It gives people a rhetorical means to justify their authoritarian impulses.

However, all that said, I am somewhat in agreement with those who say it might be better to act as-if I believed in God. This is not due to any kind of Pascal's Wager kind of thinking, but because it allows us to acknowledge the ultimately mysterious nature of reality and acquire some humility in the presence of that. Since I really cannot know with certainty that there is no God, and since we ourselves are evidence that consciousness is part of reality, "God made the world" is as easy to stomach as "the world just kind of happened", so long as I don't get too hung up on the unwarranted conclusions others want to make from their various beliefs in His/Her/Its existence.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby crfriend » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:27 pm

Daryl wrote:I like the coining of "apathetic". I am an atheist but don't much like the connotation of "anti-theist" that is too often included in our understanding of what it means to be atheist.

The term "atheist" (lower-case "a") merely indicates "one without god(s)" -- and if one exists, then it's a virtual certainty that others do as well. The term has gotten a whole lot of negative press, mostly in the semi-fundamentalist Christian USA, by way of propaganda. I assert that it is perfectly possible to live a virtuous life whilst having no belief in the supernatural; it's called "ethical behaviour". I fondly recall some exquisite conversations had in my local with a deeply devout woman over the matter, and we became friends even though the gulf should have been unbridgeable. Sadly, she passed away a few months ago, well into her 90s. I hope she found peace.

There really are some universal truths out there. E.g. "If A = B then B = A" and "treat others the way you would like to be treated". These work.
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Organized religion

Postby Happy-N-Skirts » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:25 am

Religion has been distorted and re interpreted by people for thousands of years in every culture. More wars and misery have been caused by religion than any other cause and has including human sacrifice, burning people at the stake, witch trials and hangings, chopping off heads, lying, cheating, controlling, stealing, child molesting, etc. The "clergy" like Jim and Tammy, Jerry Falwell, Jesse Jackson, etc. How about a priest who was discovered to be half owner of a gay hotel and more recently one caught embezzling church treasury on a gay dating web site? They are the only ones who have been exposed. Organized religions are tax free and almost impenetrable for fraud investigation.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby Big and Bashful » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:08 pm

I loved Terry Pratchett's Discworld witches' view of Gods They didn't believe in Gods, they didn't have to, they knew they existed. It's like tables, you don't need to believe in then, you just know they are there.

I apologise to any apostrophe police, I bet I have at least one of them in the wrong place, I am past (passed?) caring.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby Dust » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:10 am

Unfortunately, most groups, including organized religion, public schools, government, your workplace, this website, etc. will have some bad actors. Some of these people manage to make their way into positions of authority, be it clergy, teaching small children, elected officials, or management. This should not necessarily condemn the whole organization. And obviously, not all "religions" are equal. Some are downright evil.

Morality without a firm grounding, however, tends to decay over time. We try to justify our misdeeds, and if we are the arbiters of our own morality, sooner or later we reach a place where nothing is immoral. Even the "organized" churches who have splintered off have started allowing all sorts of things that were once universally condemned in the Christian West.

Morality has to be enforced on some level. If society universally believes in punishment in the afterlife, that is a start. Otherwise, it comes down to laws from the government. Governments throughout history have abused power in horrific ways, and if they are the arbiters of morality, then there is nothing wrong with things like genocide at the hands of the state, so long as it was approved by the legislature. You can say that we all agree mass murder is wrong, but clearly some have condoned it.

In the end, without absolute morals from an unchanging source, we are doomed to decend into animalistic chaos. I don't see any way that any source other than our Divine Creator can ever fill that role successfully for very long.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby Daryl » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:22 am

crfriend wrote:
Daryl wrote:I like the coining of "apathetic". I am an atheist but don't much like the connotation of "anti-theist" that is too often included in our understanding of what it means to be atheist.

The term "atheist" (lower-case "a") merely indicates "one without god(s)" -- and if one exists, then it's a virtual certainty that others do as well. The term has gotten a whole lot of negative press, mostly in the semi-fundamentalist Christian USA, by way of propaganda. I assert that it is perfectly possible to live a virtuous life whilst having no belief in the supernatural; it's called "ethical behaviour". I fondly recall some exquisite conversations had in my local with a deeply devout woman over the matter, and we became friends even though the gulf should have been unbridgeable. Sadly, she passed away a few months ago, well into her 90s. I hope she found peace.

There really are some universal truths out there. E.g. "If A = B then B = A" and "treat others the way you would like to be treated". These work.


Yeah, but one of them is a mere tautology. I prefer the other kind. :lol:
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Re: Organized religion

Postby Daryl » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:34 am

Happy-N-Skirts wrote:Religion has been distorted and re interpreted by people for thousands of years in every culture. More wars and misery have been caused by religion than any other cause.


I disagree strongly. Those wars and everything else have been caused by human failings, full stop, period, end of sentence. (screeching of tires and smell of burning rubber from hard braking)

Tribalism is a big one. Imperialism is another. Do war mongering tribal leaders and imperialists use the moral evaluative framework of their cultures as part of their rhetoric and justifications? Absolutely. But that is not the same thing as the moral evaluative framework itself causing the war. It is more like the moral evaluative framework failing to stop the war. I think that is a hugely important distinction.

Science has been used to justify war, too, but we don't blame science for causing war because we don't burden it with the expectation that it should prevent them.

So maybe we should blame reason. Certainly most people engaged in wars can give you reasons why they do it.

An atheist defending religion. You saw it right here in SC!
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby geron » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:25 pm

Dust wrote:...Morality without a firm grounding, however, tends to decay over time. We try to justify our misdeeds, and if we are the arbiters of our own morality, sooner or later we reach a place where nothing is immoral. Even the "organized" churches who have splintered off have started allowing all sorts of things that were once universally condemned in the Christian West.
Morality has to be enforced on some level. If society universally believes in punishment in the afterlife, that is a start. Otherwise, it comes down to laws from the government.

Not exactly. Morality is simply a code of behaviour that operates to improve the survival of the tribe. We have taboos against homicide, theft, rape and whatever because -- unchecked -- they damage our viability and prosperity as a group. We all understand these unwritten rules instinctively. Religions, all of them, harness this understanding: in essence they are systems of social control, and they work by threatening offenders with supernatural sanctions which are unchallengeable (and unverifiable). In modern times, governments have taken over this role: they have codified offences in much more detail and they prescribe real punishments. Nonetheless, people don't generally need a book of rules to know whether they're doing right or wrong -- it's built in to us.
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Re: Another reason I hate Tennessee

Postby familyman34 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:41 pm

Dust wrote:
Morality has to be enforced on some level. ... Otherwise, it comes down to laws from the government.


I disagree.
Morality does not have to be enforced. It is something that we learn when we are young, from our parents principally, but also from our wider community and even from wider society. In some cases our morality teachers use religion to support their efforts; but this is far from necessary in all cases. Some children learn a set of values that are acceptable in the society in which they will live, but some may not be.
It's only when these systems to inculcate acceptable moral standards show that they have failed that a (usually government-inspired) set of codified laws become necessary, and even then there is a very high rate of recidivism! (And of course, some government law is profoundly anti-religious towards at least one religion in a nation of many religions.)
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