skirtcafe.org

Fred in Skirts wrote:While I do not care if anyone likes my style or choice of the clothes I wear. I still wear them for all of the world to see. I enjoy my skirts and so wear them with all of the confidence I have. But wearing them and being confident should be enough, if others want to try them then let them. If they ask me questions I try to answer them with truth and confidence. I do not try to tell others they need to try them nor do I care if they don't.
As with everything else we should show by example not by threats.

It's really NOT ABOUT men our age. Neither of us are exactly school-kids. So maybe we don't relate to this situation except through the jaundice of our own memorable discomfort. I hope kids will some day be able to be who they feel themselves to be, and express themselves as they will, even sans words to articulate their feelings. I don't see why anyone need feel bothered by people trying to do the right thing, whether it succeeds or not. Efforts may be ineffective because of the limited reach of policy, but that doesn't negate the ethical and moral worth of the attempt.

"Knickers in a twist" - Carl, am I right in thinking that such a phrase came from your partner of old? It is a very common phrase back home in the West Midlands and is something that I have never heard said before out in the US.

Reading the Times, as is my wont on a Sunday morning, I came across an article about a School in Lewes going for a gender neutral uniform, but leaving skirts off the list altogether. Some of the parents are raising a petition stating their girls should be able to wear a skirt if they wish. The hot weather alternative is shorts / skorts. As The Times is behind a paywall I searched for coverage of the same story from another outlet so I could link to it in this post. The odd thing is that the Beeb reported on the story 2 years ago.

FranTastic444 wrote:"Knickers in a twist" - Carl, am I right in thinking that such a phrase came from your partner of old? It is a very common phrase back home in the West Midlands and is something that I have never heard said before out in the US.

As a guess, it may have come from the second woman I was involved with who happened to be from the UK originally, and from the Midlands to boot. That was in the mid 1980s, so the phrase has been with me for a good number of years and very few folks here seem to have a problem translating it. The basic US equivalent is, "get your panties in a knot" (or somesuch).

Reading the Times, as is my wont on a Sunday morning, I came across an article about a School in Lewes going for a gender neutral uniform, but leaving skirts off the list altogether. Some of the parents are raising a petition stating their girls should be able to wear a skirt if they wish.

But just for the girls, I suppose. Why not make the rule truly neutral? Equality is supposed to be transitive.

Hello Moon, I'm totally with you on this one.

Though, like Carl I want to make things better for the next generation and, as Moon said, the biggest percentage of that is simply dressing as I please and, Mishakawaskirt, that includes not only skirts, but blouses, high heels, dresses, etc. And btw, nearly nobody thinks of me or treats me as a sissy. It's just the way I dress. Though plenty of people have complimented me on how stylish I look and plenty of others have told me how brave I am to so matter of factly be myself. In addition, I do some advocacy work.

Like Fred I really don't much care if any other men adopt skirts or dresses.

But I really don't get the naysayers on the sincerity of the changes in the rules. Are you guys ever happy?

But to the point, I've seen plenty of reports in my news feeds about boys going to school in skirts and dresses and getting plenty of support from the school and their peers for it. In California, state law requires it.

Smell the coffee gentlemen! Or just read the posts, North Americans and Europeans have, by and large, turned the page; they're fine with how we dress! The Millennials and the generation(s) behind them are waiting for us to get with it; gender isn't a binary, it's a spectrum that runs along a bimodal distribution. As far as the young folks are concerned, the only remaining question is, "Are there significant or even discernible peaks? If so, do they matter?"

Dave, I may not agree with everything you wear but I do admit that what you wear looks stylish. I know that you are far ahead of me and a lot of what you wear I couldn't or wouldn't but that includes what some other site members wear as well. You are you and I wouldn't expect anything else.

Thank you Dennis!

crfriend wrote:

Dust wrote:No. I do care. I want to leave things a little better for future generations.

I fall on this side of the equation as well. If I'm going to make the effort -- and it is an effort -- to be "out of the ordinary" then I'm going to do it with some pride [0] and panache. I want to be an example that can help others overcome their fear of the unknown and be worthy of emulation.

There's enough hate, fear, and BS out there: have the guts to commit random acts of beauty. Be the change you want to see in the world, lead by example.


[0] Is that word still usable in that context?

Yes, it is.

Being the change I want to see in the world doesn't mean I want to see men all wear skirts, but I want to see them feeling free to do so as they wish.

(raising my fist in solidarity)

((there really ought to be a smillie for that))

Daryl wrote:Being the change I want to see in the world doesn't mean I want to see men all wear skirts, but I want to see them feeling free to do so as they wish.

The mere action of displaying the option is good enough. If the curiosity is already there, the display alone may be able to tip the balance.

Force is not the answer (it very seldom is). Just going about your business as yourself with confidence is all one needs, and confidence comes with time and experience.

(raising my fist in solidarity)

((there really ought to be a smillie for that))

Allow me to see what I can find/do. That's a potent symbol.

The Lewes saga continues, with a total ban on skirts from this term.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-49599078

Pupils are resisting the ban on grounds of equality, but also the environmental impact of ditching current clothes, especially for final year students.

One girl said: "To make it gender neutral they have to let everyone wear skirts or trousers and have that choice."

I suspect the school will eventually have to back down.

greenboots wrote:Pupils are resisting the ban on grounds of equality, but also the environmental impact of ditching current clothes, especially for final year students.

One girl said: "To make it gender neutral they have to let everyone wear skirts or trousers and have that choice."

So girls are protesting that they don't have a choice when, in reality, boys don't have a choice either. What they are demanding is actually special treatment - inequality. Claiming that boys could have the choice is dishonest. Boys can't wear skirts because it is still socially unacceptable, and also because uniform suppliers don't stock them - and they know that

crfriend wrote:

(raising my fist in solidarity)

((there really ought to be a smillie for that))

Allow me to see what I can find/do. That's a potent symbol.

It is. I probably have one or two versions laying around I could supply in GIF format, if you like. One is a rainbow fist, though I'm not sure how well that would work miniaturised.

greenboots wrote:The Lewes saga continues, with a total ban on skirts from this term.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-49599078

Pupils are resisting the ban on grounds of equality, but also the environmental impact of ditching current clothes, especially for final year students.

One girl said: "To make it gender neutral they have to let everyone wear skirts or trousers and have that choice."

I suspect the school will eventually have to back down.

I very much hope you are correct. We could use a few positive precedents based on equality and gender neutrality.

Daryl wrote:

crfriend wrote:

(raising my fist in solidarity)

((there really ought to be a smillie for that))

Allow me to see what I can find/do. That's a potent symbol.

It is. I probably have one or two versions laying around I could supply in GIF format, if you like. One is a rainbow fist, though I'm not sure how well that would work miniaturised.

I'm not sure the "power fist" is a symbol we want to adopt here. It has been heavily employed by racists and other nasty radicals for a long time.

Stu wrote:Claiming that boys could have the choice is dishonest. Boys can't wear skirts because it is still socially unacceptable

"Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much!" to paraphrase the Great Bard of Stratford-on-Avon.

Just look at the pictures and posts of so many of us going about our daily lives dressed as we please without any negative consequences and often with supportive, if not complimentary, comments.

More directly to the point, if school rules allow fashion freedom for both sexes then in their little society (their school), it is socially acceptable amongst them.

None of us are victims unless we allow ourselves to be one.

Pdxfashionpioneer

I was talking specifically about schoolboys in a school environment rather than grown men. At their ages, the pressure to conform is enormous and that especially applies when it comes to distinguishing themselves from girls.