thought experiment?

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thought experiment?

Postby skirtedbrit » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:07 am

What if you were to get some women to bring their dullest and least liked clothes together? Then ask them for their comments on being told that they have to wear these clothes from childhood to the grave and if they tried to vary them they could face severe consequencies such as false and bigoted comments on their sexuality, distrust near children, malicious gossip, employment problems etc.
Would they willingly accept this? Or would they tell everybody where to go and where to stick societies stupid attitudes? You can imagine the howls of dissent!
Are'nt we in this situation? Having worn skirts and dresses for over 12 years there is no way I would go backwards and no way will I accept repressive social attitudes. I am freer, more comfortable and more relaxed for being able to wear what I like.
Could this be a way to change the minds of those who don't like the idea of men in skirts?

When I first joined SC I dreamt of the freedom to wear a dress with "Growing old disgracefully" on the front and "Now shut up and get the drinks in" on the back. Last October for my 70th I did just that and loved every moment. Family, friends resteraunt staff and everybody I met were hugely supportive, no problems whatsoever. As previously related my birthday present was a flight in a ww2 Spitfire over the Scottish highlands and I flew it for 15 minutes. If I have the balls to fly a Spitfire I have the balls to wear a dress and if I have the balls to wear a dress I have the balls to fly a Spitfire. My wife has always been 100% supportive which has made life easier and I am now starting my second dress design, satin, with a Spitfire motive!

Don't let anyone dictate your life.
Dave
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby denimini » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:46 pm

A good description of male upbringing as far as clothing goes.
To make the point by forcing it on women would fail because a lot of women are now voluntarily wearing these boring things - but they do have the choice and have earnt it.
We just have to earn it ourselves by doing exactly what most here are doing.

I envy your Spitfire flight, wow 15 minutes. Found you a Spitfire mini.
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby Sinned » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:02 pm

skirtedbrit, you have a supportive wife. Non-sarcastically speaking, then good for you and congratulations. Many of here haven't and our attitudes and acceptance of our skirts would be entirely different if we did have supportive wives. Virtually all of my problems with wearing a skirt in the big bad world are caused by MOH. With her acceptance I would probably act like you. Yes, balls are needed and I would posit that bigger balls are needed with a non-accepting OH than if they are accepting. After all their opposition is many orders of magnitude greater from someone so close than from strangers, or even some family.

As for trying to constrain women's attire - forget it! Too much like hard work. A bit like pushing a huge boulder up a steep hill.

I envy your flight in a Spitfire - the nearest I have got is sitting in one at an airshow.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby Grok » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:48 pm

skirtedbrit wrote:What if you were to get some women to bring their dullest and least liked clothes together? Then ask them for their comments on being told that they have to wear these clothes from childhood to the grave and if they tried to vary them they could face severe consequencies such as false and bigoted comments on their sexuality, distrust near children, malicious gossip, employment problems etc.

I suspect that many of the women would still insist on the double standard..
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby STEVIE » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:23 am

Hi Dave,
Congratulations on the milestone birthday and the frock too. Good luck with the next design too.
We are within the same generation and from our mothers back, most women (and men) were completely constrained in their choice of clothing.
Society, their family, friends and neighbours etc saw to that with utmost effectiveness. For any amount reasons, females have seen their freedom to choose develop and evolve to its current state. A lot of that evolution has come from their own efforts and actions.
It is now up to us men to make a similar effort but we will do ourselves no favours if that is at the cost of the gains that the women have made either.
Steve.
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby moonshadow » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:18 am

Grok wrote:
skirtedbrit wrote:What if you were to get some women to bring their dullest and least liked clothes together? Then ask them for their comments on being told that they have to wear these clothes from childhood to the grave and if they tried to vary them they could face severe consequencies such as false and bigoted comments on their sexuality, distrust near children, malicious gossip, employment problems etc.

I suspect that many of the women would still insist on the double standard..


I've tried this... and you're right, they do just that. Often I get hit with the old....

"Well that's different" argument.

Oh well.... to hell with 'em anyway....

You either dig me... or you don't.... still gonna be me no matter what! Women aren't the grand master keepers of the universe. They're human beings just like me, and in the grand scheme of the cosmos.... we are all equally insignificant!

Live your life... f--- the haters....
-Moon Shadow
YouTube Channel - Moon's Photography
[---insert inspirational quote here---]
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby dillon » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:46 am

Grok wrote:
skirtedbrit wrote:What if you were to get some women to bring their dullest and least liked clothes together? Then ask them for their comments on being told that they have to wear these clothes from childhood to the grave and if they tried to vary them they could face severe consequencies such as false and bigoted comments on their sexuality, distrust near children, malicious gossip, employment problems etc.

I suspect that many of the women would still insist on the double standard..


I must reluctantly agree, not out of misanthropy but from experience. Few people, women or men, can ruminate purely rationally on a subject deeply rooted in belief, tradition, and suspicion. I think those who can vanquish long-held attitudes, especially on something so challenging to understand, are few and far between. They can tell themselves that they should keep an open mind but when push comes to shove, they just can’t.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby skirtedbrit » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:05 pm

Wow, Many thanks Denimini, I have just bought a mini skirt of the actual aircraft I flew and a Spitfire dress from Redbubble.
Not sure about my long hairy legs and knobbly knees.
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:51 pm

Congratulations on the landmark birthday and on the Spitfire flight! Not to mention taking the controls! WOW!

As to whether or not most women would insist on maintaining the double standard, I don't see that AT ALL. Just this afternoon I was leaving the Goodwill store with a bag full of finds, when a woman who

was leaving the parking lot, stopped to tell me how much she envied my skirt and find out where I found it. This is representative of how most women respond to seeing me in a dress or skirt: Some are neutral, lots of are approving and a few insist on knowing where I shop or how much they admire my legs. The one who told me I had a problem was a definite outlier.

In fact, whenever I've stated that I was going to wear a dress, even if it was for a costume party, women all but lined up to provide help!

This weekend I attended a birthday party in the dress I was wearing when a very drunk lady groped me (Proving that drunken near-sex beats no sex.). Several of the men who were there told me I looked "fabulous."

My photographer was there. He said he never sees another man's shirt or slacks that particularly speak to him, let alone tells the owner how much he likes it, but he sees plenty of things on women that makes him think, "I'd like to wear that!" As you can imagine, we got into quite a conversation about how the next time he sees something that strikes him that way, he should get one for himself and try it out. He insisted he couldn't!

Which of course amazed me! He wouldn't even buy the old stand-by of "If I can do it, you can do it!" He didn't think he had the confidence to pull it off. Even when his wife walked by and I enlisted her in the effort, the best he could manage was, he'd think about it!

The people maintaining the double standard are ourselves! As Jim Morrison of The Doors sang, "Break on through to the other side!"
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby Grok » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:30 am

I recall a point that was made in a kilting forum some years ago. It was commented that women react to a kilted man in one of two ways-they either love it, or they hate it.

An implication being that some women are open minded enough to accept a man in one pipe. (at least in this limited context).
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby denimini » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:46 am

skirtedbrit wrote:Not sure about my long hairy legs and knobbly knees.

Don't worry about it. That is the accepted look of a mature man in a mini; we set our own standards.
I am late 60's and regularly wear minis and am unaware of any mutterings or looks of disapproval.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby skirtedbrit » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:41 pm

So, my skirt with an image of the Spitfire that I flew arrived and very nice it is. However, my male bulge coincides with the cockpit!!!
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Re: thought experiment?

Postby Fred in Skirts » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:39 pm

skirtedbrit wrote:So, my skirt with an image of the Spitfire that I flew arrived and very nice it is. However, my male bulge coincides with the cockpit!!!

OK so it now looks occupied!! :rofl: :rofl: :hide:
Fred :kiltdance:

"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle."

"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
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