Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby moonshadow » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:17 am

https://www.racked.com/2018/4/23/17261508/gender-bending-men-dresses

Apologies if this has been posted here before, the article dates back to April of 2018. It was linked to from Vox's weblog, and though it is a lengthy read, I found it very worthwhile.

From the article wrote:The straight men who do go for slip dresses and front-wrap skirts seem to have one common theme between them: They have fully rejected society’s binary, and the prejudices that come with it. And not in an “I walked in the Women’s March and signed a petition for gay rights” kind of way. They live it.


F----g A!
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Fred in Skirts » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:16 am

moonshadow wrote:https://www.racked.com/2018/4/23/17261508/gender-bending-men-dresses
From the article wrote:The straight men who do go for slip dresses and front-wrap skirts seem to have one common theme between them: They have fully rejected society’s binary, and the prejudices that come with it. And not in an “I walked in the Women’s March and signed a petition for gay rights” kind of way. They live it.

F----g A!


You've got that right!!! :soapbox:
Fred :kiltdance:

:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Stu » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:48 am

I broadly agree with some of the sentiments expressed. We need to take the focus away from gender altogether in my view and just focus on aspects such as choice and comfort.

The danger is for the men-in-skirts issue to be hijacked by narrow lobby groups such as LGBT or feminism rather than being seen as simply a matter of men's rights to enjoy a broader range of sartorial options as women take for granted.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby lazerr » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:41 pm

As the advice columnist from 1938 pointed out, “We would send a man who paraded the streets in a decollete gown and high-heeled pumps to an asylum for mental observation, whereas a girl who gets herself up like an imitation man goes scot free.” Not until men can just as freely put on chiffon dresses as women could put on trousers, can we say that we have figured it out.


I'd say this sums it all. I would hope we are finally heading in that direction to "figuring it out". I doubt a man would be sent to an asylum now, but some friends and relatives might have that thought.

Great article!
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby crfriend » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:55 pm

Stu wrote:The danger is for the men-in-skirts issue to be hijacked by narrow lobby groups such as LGBT or feminism rather than being seen as simply a matter of men's rights to enjoy a broader range of sartorial options as women take for granted.

This is my primary worry. Whilst it might seem that there is surface commonality between "men-in-skirts" and the other groups, once one starts digging one recognises the agendas are entirely different. We're already seeing this in the overt hijacking of "freedom of choice over what to wear" as being an absolute statement of being trans-*. This'll put the straight guys off the scent faster than anything going, and I suspect these pressure-groups know it and are acting accordingly.

The main issue is that there really isn't the "freedom to choose what to wear" if one is a straight male in modern western society. If one attempts to exercise freedom, one automatically gets classified into a box that entirely likely doesn't fit. Face it, the vast majority of guys are perfectly straight -- and the various other labels don't apply, and guys quite rightfully have a right to object to being classified under such labels. Unfortunately, there's a fear of ridicule and rejection that goes along with the "off-normal" (there, I've gone and said it) labels, and it's that fear that keeps the straight guys from exercising what ought to be a reasonable freedom to chose what the want to wear. So they self-police and the attitude hardens.

In the state election just passed in Massachusetts was a referendum question concerning "gender expression" as it pertains to public accommodations (a "potty law"). The question was whether to uphold what the legislature already passed or to repeal it ("Yes" and "No" respectively). I took some playful stick at the place I hang on weekends over this, was asked whether I voted yes or no (I voted "Yes" [0]), and was asked whether I was going to start using the women's room. I simply stated, "No, I'm a guy. Why would I want to do that?". The guy was trying to get a rise out of me, and I wasn't going to take the bait. However, I was offended that the notion even arose. I wear skirts (and the occasional dress) out of choice and because I like the feel and looks of the garments -- not because I something I'm not, nor am I trying to "game the system" by portraying myself as something I'm not.

[0] by way of poking a stick in the Religious Right's eye. (1) Who am I to judge somebody else, (2) The law doesn't apply to me and doesn't hurt anybody, and (3) To tell the holier-than-thou to get a life and stay out of others' lives. "Yes" was chosen by a margin of 68% to 32% which gives an indication of the hold that the far right in Massachusetts has.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby moonshadow » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:12 pm

crfriend wrote:[0] by way of poking a stick in the Religious Right's eye. (1) Who am I to judge somebody else, (2) The law doesn't apply to me and doesn't hurt anybody, and (3) To tell the holier-than-thou to get a life and stay out of others' lives. "Yes" was chosen by a margin of 68% to 32% which gives an indication of the hold that the far right in Massachusetts has.


I hope we never even have such a referendum question here in Virginia. The political rhetoric and fear mongering, especially in my region would be downright nauseating. I can just see the endless ocean of "PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM PERVERTS", "NO BATHROOM ABOMINATIONS" etc, yard signs.... While such a measure might be heavily supported in the NOVA (northern Virginia) area, Hampton Roads, Richmond, etc... where I live, I doubt support for such a measure would exceed much past 5% or so....

If we ever did, and I was asked the same question you were, I suppose I'd answer in the same manner than you did.

I will say however, that for the most part, folks in my region do simply regard me as "a man in a skirt/dress" and nothing more. I'm not sure if that's out of spite or respect. Doesn't really matter, they're leaving me alone anyway.

Whilst out Christmas shopping, I stopped in Misty Mountain, my favorite skirt shop (even if a little pricey), and the nice young lady who was working the counter politely asked me my preferred pronouns, to which I thanked her for the consideration and told her "he". Ironically, for a brief moment there, I saw the look in her face as though my answer didn't quite compute.... :lol:
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Grok » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:37 am

moonshadow wrote:Whilst out Christmas shopping, I stopped in Misty Mountain, my favorite skirt shop (even if a little pricey), and the nice young lady who was working the counter politely asked me my preferred pronouns, to which I thanked her for the consideration and told her "he". Ironically, for a brief moment there, I saw the look in her face as though my answer didn't quite compute.... :lol:
What? Does that mean that you aren't Trans? :shock: But that is today's fashionable cause!
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby moonshadow » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:17 am

Grok wrote:What? Does that mean that you aren't Trans?


No... I'm afraid that group won't have me either... Moon is many things, buts trans isn't one of them.

Alas, for it matters not at any rate, for in the grand scheme of the cosmos, we are quite equally insignificant... :wink:

For behold, once the individual realizes how unimportant he or she is, suddenly we locate the freedom that has forever eluded us. For when we realize we need not shoulder the burden of what other, petty mortals place upon our back, we then learn that there is no limit to what we can achieve.

I have no issue with transgender people... by all means, let them play in their playpen.... but a cage is still is, and a cage it always shall be....
"Our task is not to destroy but to build; not to hate but to find a place of yielding; not to polarize but to discover the points of commonality so that we can work together. Learn this lesson, dear friends, it will serve you well"
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby partlyscot » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:44 pm

A large part of the problem, from my point of view anyway, is that the definitions are subject to misuse and misunderstandings.

As far as I can nail it down, my own situation is being gender fluid or gender nonconforming. That is simply because it is not typical for a male to want to wear skirts or dresses, outside of certain ethnic or religious roles. My attitude to that is it shouldn't be the case, and quite a few conversations lead me to believe I'm not alone in that. (particularly with ladies) That's all it means, and has no bearing on how I see my actual sex, gender, sexual orientation, or position in society. For the most part, I don't care much how others see me, as long as it has no actual impact on my life. Others can think of it being demeaning for me if they wish, but if that leads them to try and push me into some box, (other than in their thoughts) then they will find I'm not as weak as they may think.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby lazerr » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:09 pm

I'm reading the previous posts, and it seems to me that men, or women, wearing skirts has nothing to do with other issues. While some trans folks might wear clothing that identifies them as women (or men), it isn't strictly necessary in my opinion. Seeing how few women wear dresses and skirts these days, I think that restroom usage has nothing to do with wearing a skirt. I would be surprised f the wearing of skirts actually defines a trans man as trans (it would seem that it is irrelevant) , or that wearing pants defines a trans woman as trans. If it was so it would be easy, but it's not. I think that people really like to have something easy to categorize people and what you wear is really easy to latch on to. However, it really isn't the point to Gender affiliation at all

So, why don't most men casually wear dresses? I think it is because we are born into a world designed by people long gone. We inherit it, and every incorrect, as well as correct, assumptions about gender and "how to be a man". It's convenient, but stifling. That's why we are talking. Notice that the men who grew up seeing men wear kilts and other "men's" skirts have no problem with it. I once accepted my inheritance, but now realize it was simply an invention meant for other people and for another time. About time to invent something else, or sweep away all of it (at least as it pertains to skirts).

One thing this board has taught me, everyone has a different story, different reason and different likes. To me, casually wearing a dress isn't something that has occurred to me yet as something I want to do, but of course, I've been changed before. I applaud anyone who wants to, and I say DO what you want to do!
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby pelmut » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:24 pm

moonshadow wrote:... The political rhetoric and fear mongering, especially in my region would be downright nauseating. I can just see the endless ocean of "PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM PERVERTS", "NO BATHROOM ABOMINATIONS" etc, yard signs....

anti-trans-group-bathroom-predator-myth
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby WesleyN » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:57 pm

My daughter asked: "What does pioneer mean?" "That's me, I wear skirts, that's someone who goes for fashion." :wink:

Thank you for this story. Very interesting.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby crfriend » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:40 pm

pelmut wrote:
moonshadow wrote:... The political rhetoric and fear mongering, especially in my region would be downright nauseating. I can just see the endless ocean of "PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM PERVERTS", "NO BATHROOM ABOMINATIONS" etc, yard signs....

anti-trans-group-bathroom-predator-myth

Ha! I was about to point out that the link I provided to the Massachusetts referendum referred to something entirely similar until I skimmed this linked article and found out that it was talking about precisely the same incident.

One is more at risk at an airport from politicians reaching under the walls of the stall to try to catch something.

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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby moonshadow » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:39 am

partlyscot wrote:As far as I can nail it down, my own situation is being gender fluid or gender nonconforming.


These seem to more or less accurately describe myself as well, though over time I have gravitated away from the "gender-______" labels as once again, it seems to get scooped in with the trans* agenda. You all know that for a while I went along with the whole "gender fluid" thing, but for the last year or so, when someone ask, I simply point out that I'm no more transgender than a woman who wears pants.

Indeed, our clothes are part of our identity, but I see no need to group skirts and dresses as "women only" territory any longer... men can enjoy in the fun too!

I like to think my situation is ... "free"...

The trans box is still a box. I like to think outside said box.

Yes, I will have my cake and eat it too, because otherwise, what's the point of having a cake if you can't eat it anyway? (I never understood that euphemism...)

crfriend wrote:Fear. It's our most important product.


I rather think that it [fear] is our largest industry. America doesn't produce much anymore... but by God we've got the market cornered on fear... can't outsource that one to China.... no sir!
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby partlyscot » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:14 am

moonshadow wrote:
partlyscot wrote:As far as I can nail it down, my own situation is being gender fluid or gender nonconforming.


These seem to more or less accurately describe myself as well, though over time I have gravitated away from the "gender-______" labels as once again, it seems to get scooped in with the trans* agenda. You all know that for a while I went along with the whole "gender fluid" thing, but for the last year or so, when someone ask, I simply point out that I'm no more transgender than a woman who wears pants


That was my point, it doesn't have anything to do with being trans, but misunderstandings keep forcing it in there.
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