Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby crfriend » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:22 pm

andrewsh wrote:That is not true. What you’re describing has nothing to do with feminism.

Perhaps we're not dealing with feminism any longer but rather something else. All I can do is call things the way I see them.

Do you have another term in mind? (And that's not meant as sarcasm. That's a legitimate question, for what you describe does not accurately describe the situation "on the ground" here.)
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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby andrewsh » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:45 am

crfriend wrote:
andrewsh wrote:That is not true. What you’re describing has nothing to do with feminism.

Perhaps we're not dealing with feminism any longer but rather something else. All I can do is call things the way I see them.

Do you have another term in mind? (And that's not meant as sarcasm. That's a legitimate question, for what you describe does not accurately describe the situation "on the ground" here.)

What you’re describing is called sexism. Unfortunately, there’s a whole lot of people who are very much against gender equality, who make attempts to discredit the movement by saying that arseholery and sexism are part of being feminist. I suspect there may also be a lot of intentional provocations similar to the ‘anti-manspreading’ act which happened in Russia recently, which was obviously staged and obviously not doing any good to help feminism or good manners of people on trains.

From what I understand judging by your comments you’re not one of those people, but apparently they led you to believe feminism is something it actually isn’t. I am a feminist myself, and I know a lot of other people who are feminists and not hiding that, both men and women, and none of them share anything with people you’re talking about, and all of them agree those people do not represent feminism and they are not, in fact, feminists. I understand there certainly are some people who truly hate men and who foolishly think that’s called feminism, but they are wrong, they’re just sexist bigots (think of lots of racist people who think they aren’t in any way racist).

Dismissing feminism (and statements from actual feminists on what it is) just because there’s a bunch of stupid but very vocal people who claim to be feminists but act in exactly opposite way is very wrong, especially for our cause on this forum. Fighting for a right to wear skirts as men is something that is as feminist as it can get, because it’s breaking rules based on gender discrimination. That is what feminism is and has always been about.
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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby crfriend » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:14 am

andrewsh wrote:What you’re describing is called sexism.

Indeed, but the interesting thing about it here is that the ones championing and implementing policy here are women. This is not about equality, it's about subjugation.

I'll also caution on the use of the loaded term "sexism". According to popular belief only men are capable of that. I call BS on that count, but will be summarily shouted down by the angry hordes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very much for equality, but that equality must be transitive else it's false and we're trading one wrong for another. The latter is a fool's bargain. What I perceive is anything but equality.

Now, perhaps the soft voice of reason is getting shouted down by the shrill voice of demand, and that's wrong -- and it's wrong for an entire collection of reasons. "My ancestors were wronged by your forebears" is no reason to commit another wrong today. The answer is to recognise what went wrong before, contemplate it, and fashion a response that will solve that going forward without wronging the current and future generations. What's really going on is the abject vilification of men -- who are alive today and had precisely nothing to do with their fathers' deeds -- and it's entirely reprehensible.

What the modern batch need to learn is that punishing the children of a generation (and, by proxy, those generations going forward) is not an ethical response. Will they learn that lesson? I rather suspect not, for they're "on a mission".

I used to describe myself as a feminist, and my historical writings here will back that up, but exposure to the rather blunt instrument of the State -- over categorically false charges -- changed that. I remain committed to equality, but I am a staunch opponent of dominion -- of or by one "side" or the other.

Of note here is Brad's observation when he encountered an entirely unwelcome grope -- what would the penalty have been if the roles been reversed? Is that equality? I posit not.
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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby Dust » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:14 am

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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby TheRod » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:31 pm

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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby Raakone » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:55 am

From what I read, at one time...the Scotsmen both did and didn't wear anything under their kilts. As was done in much of Europe at the time, many men, especially those who were poorer, wore their nightshirts as undershirts during the day. Those who wore trousers just tucked in the "longer" part, and passed it between their legs also. In the case of those who wore kilts, the nightshirt was the "underwear" between the wearer and the kilt. But it was "open."
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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby Dust » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:49 pm

No true Scotsman is a fallacy, and a form of circular argument. It basically says anyone who says/does X isn't a true Y. Therefore that person who says/does X isn't really a Y as they claim. It is generally done to insulate group Y from criticism.

The following and a number of other claims of a pure and true feminism read, in my mind, as textbook examples of this fallacy, thus my posting the link. The connection between the name of the fallacy and the subject of the thread was a pure coincidence (although amusing).
andrewsh wrote:If anyone tells you that’s not feminism is about, they’re either misguided themselves or attempt to misguide you.

I know because I am a feminist.

The overall back and forth (of "feminists say and do XYZ all the time" "but feminism is about ABC, those aren't true feminists") just reeked of this. I wanted to beat my head against the wall in frustration, but rather than posting something angry, I just posted a link. Apparently, that was too subtle.
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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby STEVIE » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:12 am

Hi Raakone,
I had never thought of a Scotsman's underwear in terms of Schrodinger's cat before.
The reputation for no underwear stems from the Feileadh Mhor, The Great Kilt. This is the truly traditional garment worn by the Scottish Highland men.
The story goes that the Kilt was so heavy that they dropped it when they went into battle and fought essentially naked. These people were so poor that underwear would have been seen as a luxury. They were mainly cattle herders and The Great Kilt was used as a makeshift shelter as well as an item of clothing.
The Scottish Military certainly prolonged that "custom". In many regiments the soldier would have been marched over a mirror for inspection purposes.
The modern kilt is a relative Johnny come lately, 16th century and most of our current "clan" tartans a figment of an enterprising weaver's imagination.
As for feminism, no comment, it's safer.
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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby crfriend » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:44 am

STEVIE wrote:I had never thought of a Scotsman's underwear in terms of Schrodinger's cat before.

"Schrodinger's shorts"? Oh god, we're doomed... :twisted:
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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby STEVIE » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:05 pm

I do know of one exception.
Queen Victoria's guards at Balmoral Castle were issued with a fore runner of Jockey Shorts.
As they were made from the same material as the Kilt, I would doubt they were comfortable.
The story also goes that the heavy kilt pin was introduced around the same time to spare her blushes.
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Re: Upkilting isn’t a laughing matter

Postby Fred in Skirts » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:13 pm

Here is something I saw in the news.....

Pharmacist Johnny Chan, 34, was charged with 71 counts of invasion of privacy, including one involving a minor, after allegedly planting a hidden camera in an employee restroom in a laboratory operated by Kaiser Permanente in Portland, Ore. The healthcare organization fired him. While out on bail, Chan was arrested again on 27 more counts after investigators say Chan also used a camera on his shoe to record “upskirt” images of women who sat at desks near him; his bail was raised to $2 million. While out on bail, Chan got a job at a Banana Republic clothing store. A police officer investigating the previous cases visited the store — and found a hidden camera in an employee restroom. Chan, who still lives with his parents, was arrested yet again, fired again, and faces another 27 counts in that case, including one involving a minor. Chan’s bail was raised to $4 million. When investigators asked Chan if he viewed commercial adult movies, he said no — “because that would be weird.”


Not only is it illegal but can become very expensive too! To say this guy is an idiot is really hurting real idiots everywhere. This gut should be castrated as well as jailed.
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