Japanese Unisex Uniform

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Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby SkirtsDad » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:49 am

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/06/21/national/social-issues/school-uniforms-go-unisex-japanese-schools-seek-better-fit-lgbt-students/#.W4ylZv9Kgkk

A couple of the comments from below the article:

"Why? The sailor skirts look cool! Nowadays, "unisex" basically means women wearing men's clothes."
"my elementary school (USA) allowed girls to wear the male uniform freely, and almost every girl embraced it. I can only remember seeing one girl who still used the skirt,"
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby r.m.anderson » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:32 am

Comments below the article as expected -

But one was an issue I would amp up on -
'WHERE ARE THE SKIRT WEARING BOYS' ?

And the double breast suit coats - why go
to that formal a look when a simple jacket
could suffice - also I don't care for the DB
suit coat which always has to be buttoned
up. I picture DB suit coats as the formal
wear of navy officers of old.
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby denimini » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:51 am

I was hoping to hear that boys could wear sailor suits but it seems this could be the start of the slow demise of the sailor suit. Such a shame of the loss of such a cultural icon.
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby oldsalt1 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:47 am

This is great, you have a jacket than either pants or a skirt made out of the exact same material . Just like my suggestion for a modified 2 pants suit :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby Stu » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:14 pm

"are introducing unisex uniforms or flexible uniform codes in an effort to support lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender students."

Here we go again. The only time you will ever see any male student wearing a skirt is when that student is signalling he is trans and the skirt is a signifier of his association with the feminine. No boy will wear one otherwise.

This move is yet another example of a school reinforcing rather than demolishing gendered dress limitations.

Sad.
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby SkirtsDad » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:23 pm

denimini wrote:I was hoping to hear that boys could wear sailor suits but it seems this could be the start of the slow demise of the sailor suit. Such a shame of the loss of such a cultural icon.


The would probably be accused of cultural appropriation if they created it today. I have spent several hours researching its origin, only to find a lot of conflicting information. I have sifted through and this is my conclusion:

Some seem to attribute the uniform to Utako Shimoda, but although she attemted to introduce Western-style clothes into schools in 1887, her recognised contribution seems to be the hakama skirt. She was a pioneer of women's education, but no suffragette. She met and admired Queen Victoria and attributed some of the success of the then British Empire down to health from excercise and the old style clothing was not conducive to physical excersise. In line with both Queen Victoria's Western Christian ideals but also maintaining the Eastern concept of Confucious' felial piety, she believed that men and women should be kept appart with men basking in public glory and women building the home.

Anyway, back the the sailor uniform... the first reference I can find is to it being intruduce into a school/university in Fukuoka in 1921 by Elizabeth Lee. She had seen the original uniforms when in Britain on an exchange trip. Apparently the new sailor-themed uniform was not well recieved and was laughed at by the media so didn't get any further at that time. Two years later, a bad earth quake killed 100,000 people and it was considered that the retrictive clothing had been at the root of many deaths as the women were not able to escape. After 1930 the easy-to-move uniform, based on European naval uniform, was intruduce into all schools. Western sewing was added to girls kimono sewing classes with the idea that they could make their own uniforms, and many did to the pleasure of the parents who were saved the expense of traditional clothes. A contrast with today when the uniform business in Japan is a multi-trillion yen business.

The sailor uniform started to have a negative connotation in the 1980's when girl-gangs wore 'tough looking' modified uniforms.
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby crfriend » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:03 pm

Stu nailed it. It's a continuation of the ignorance inherent in the matter.

On the notion of the "sailor" style, it's worth noting that it has resonances in many places for children. Looking behind me and slightly up, there's a (formally taken) graven image of me from the mid 1960s in a sailor-inspired get-up -- and, you know, it actually works. My lower half is concealed, and I'm sure that the outfit was either shorts or trousers, as it looks like I'm leaning, cross-armed, on a table or desk. (I detest the crew-cut that my guardians forced on me, but other than that it's a nice memory.)

As far as the double-breasted coats worn by naval officers, it's hard to get any more stylish than that. It conjures up a lot of imagery, captures the imagination, and harks back to a time before GPS and sail-by-wire commanding.
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby r.m.anderson » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:20 am

Ebay "Japanese Sailor Suit" LINK:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... T&_sacat=0

Loads of eye-candy for and aft but frankly a bit juvenile for SkirtCafe but that is what youngsters are juvenile and
if it is a skirt then it qualifies for SkirtCafe wear - better on some than others.
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby bridkid » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:57 am

Stu wrote:"are introducing unisex uniforms or flexible uniform codes in an effort to support lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender students."

Here we go again. The only time you will ever see any male student wearing a skirt is when that student is signalling he is trans and the skirt is a signifier of his association with the feminine. No boy will wear one otherwise.

This move is yet another example of a school reinforcing rather than demolishing gendered dress limitations.

Sad.


Yes, it's very depressing isn't it. It would seem the powers that be are terrified of men/boys wearing skirts. If we break it down, we can expose the ridiculous position of the authorities:

Lesbian wearing a skirt. Total none issue, so why mention it?

Gay/bisexual men/boys don't wear skirts as a means of identity.

Transgender is a separate issue, not really a factor in this, as it's such a rarity.

Why don't schools just have a policy of wear what you want? It should be 'if a boy wants to wear a skirt for school, as long as it's the uniform skirt, then that's ok.

All this sexuality and gender just muddies the waters, and makes it very difficult for males to choose skirts without all the social issues.
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby moonshadow » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:14 pm

bridkid wrote:All this sexuality and gender just muddies the waters, and makes it very difficult for males to choose skirts without all the social issues.


When I first joined this site, I believe I mentioned a few times that the whole trans thing was helping our cause, now I'm just not so sure.

I know a few times here locally, some people seem to somewhat obnoxiously "sir" me or use a Male pronoun when referring to me. They're probably on the assumption that it offends me. Little do they realize it doesn't bother me to say the least, and when I get "sir'ed" I smile and give them a "and don't you forget it!" grin. :mrgreen:

I try not to bother people and inject my opinions in places where it's not wanted, but to be honest the recent trans movement has about pushed me back I to trousers on more than a few occasions. The politics around the issue is just getting insane on both sides, and somewhere along the way you find a micro-subculture of men just want to wear the clothes of their choosing, but it seems you can't do that without invoking womanhood....

The solution for trans woes I think would be more easily obtained if we stopped trying to redefine womanhood, and rather opened the spectrum on manhood. I know this is the second time I've said this, but I believe it's worth repeating.

It's a bullet proof theory and the neo-cons can't touch it. They can no longer chant "YOU'RE NOT A REAL WOMAN! YOU'RE NOT A REAL WOMAN"... Imagine the the reaction when the gender non-comforting guy just fired back.... "yeah? What's your point? You feel better now that you've got that off your chest honcho? "

People take themselves waaaaay to seriously....
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby Uncle Al » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:28 pm

moonshadow wrote:<snip>
It's a bullet proof theory and the neo-cons can't touch it. They can no longer
chant "YOU'RE NOT A REAL WOMAN! YOU'RE NOT A REAL WOMAN"...
Imagine the the reaction when the gender non-comforting guy just fired back....
"yeah? What's your point?
You feel better now that you've got that off your chest honcho? "

<snip>....


I Love this comeback :!:

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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby Stu » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:33 pm

Moonshadow

"I know a few times here locally, some people seem to somewhat obnoxiously "sir" me or use a Male pronoun when referring to me."

I may or may not have referred to you as "he" - I don't recall. If so, I have done that because I would have assumed you were male, which is a reasonable assumption for a member of a discussion board which discusses male fashion. Of course, if you'd had a feminine name (e.g."Moongirl"), then I would have used feminine pronouns. I always make the assumption that posters are male unless I have reason to believe otherwise. Now I don't think you were referring to me, but it may be the case that some people whom you call "obnoxious" were like me in assuming you identified as male.

My own view on gender nonconformity is really simple: that's the individual's own business and I will refer to anyone who appears to be, or asserts themselves to be, male as he/him - and anyone who appears to be, or asserts themselves to be, female as she/her. I do not demand a birth certificate or DNA test as proof of someone's sex: whatever you say you are is fine with me. Where I would draw the lines when it comes to using the exotic/made-up pronouns which some people seem to want because that's when the individual is demanding that I change my own language to fit their ideological views on gender. I won't do that.
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby moonshadow » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:53 pm

Apologies Stu. After re-reading my comment I can see where it may lead to confusion. I didn't mean "here locally" as in the cafe... I meant as in my hometown.

As such I do identify as a man, male, guy, dude, fella, etc etc. I am not transgender in no way shape or form. I do have many traditionally feminine attributes, but I see no reason why that should effect a change in my gender. For that matter I believe all men have very strong feminine characteristics, they are just afraid to express them until they boil up and pop one day, and later land in jail.

Moon, or rather "the moon" has been considered both masculine and feminine (there have been lots of moon gods and goddesses), as such I consider the moon without gender... but then again nobody that I know ever walked up to it and asked what its thoughts are. Though technically the username had nothing to do with gender as far as I'm concerned , rather was simply a "Magickal name" I picked up many years ago and have used it as a internet username ever since.
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby pelmut » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:25 pm

moonshadow wrote:...Moon, or rather "the moon" has been considered both masculine and feminine

Definitely feminine and very musical.
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Re: Japanese Unisex Uniform

Postby KellyRain » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:15 am

I've lived in Japan for 18yrs. The school girl outfit is a fetish here in Japan with a power that is worrying sometimes. School girls and the sexualization of young girls is a real issue here. Then there is the presence of the school girl fashion in anime and pop culture. So it carries a lot of social baggage.

When you see a guy here in School Girl clothing it is almost always drag or cosplay. And society has a ton of ideas that are associated with it. Especially the sexualization of the look as a fetish. This presents massive problems for gender neutral school wear for kids.

I do think young guys are already curious about and maybe somewhat envious of the power the sailor style and school girl outfits offer in society. Young guys often express in media here that they feel girls are so lucky with fashion, their make up, their role in society (being more free than the dour path most men liv out here as salarymen) and that it is so iconic in society here. But few guys would venture to wear it because of those very same reasons and the strong sexualized aspect.

Given this I doubt we will see school girl attire adopted by boys for school. More likely the Unisex uniforms will be something like this article talked about and would likely remain there for a long time.

That said, I do see a lot more young men in dresses here as part of casual alternative fashion. Visual Kei bands have pioneered this and that is helping. But at the same time there is a strong cross dressing movement amongst young men too. These guys dress as girls and it is much more common to see them in Shinjuku, Shibuya, Harajuku and Omotesando where fashion is often first to appear. Some are very stylish, others not so successful. But it is common enough now that it isn't really something people even bother to stare at. Which is liberating for men who wish to cross dress.

But school skirts on boys is going to be problematic because of the social image of the school girl and her uniform. Even a kilt with the blue/green colors common to school girl skirts can be problematic. My wife loves my kilts but consistently warns against tartans too close to school uniforms as it suggests a fetish. That hurdle is high unless you cross dress. So I doubt it will move anytime soon.
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