Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby FranTastic444 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:19 am

FranTastic444
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:47 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby Caultron » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:02 am

Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby trainspotter48 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:28 pm

It would seem that the argument over school uniform continues.

There was an article on BBC Wales yesterday (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46373351) for those who can access it.
It says clothing choices should not be based on sex or gender, and flexibility is urged to help pupils undergoing gender reassignment.
Ministers are also consulting on ways to help make uniform cheaper, such as limiting school logos on clothes.
One head teacher said plans for gender neutral uniforms were "sensible".
"Our policy is that any student can wear a skirt or trousers, and we have had one young man who came in in a skirt one day and we said he looked very smart and he carried on and the next day he came in in trousers," said Jackie Parker, from Crickhowell High School in Monmouthshire.
"Generally the girls wear skirts and the boys wear trousers but I think gender neutral is sensible."


There is also a discussion over the expense of school clothing marked with a school logo as opposed to the 'off the shelf' version available in generic clothing stores.
trainspotter48
Distinguished Member
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:23 pm
Location: West of England

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby Stu » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:31 pm

The trouble is that stores still sell clothes in gendered categories. If they stopped doing that, it would encourage both boys and girls to experiment and be a bit more adventurous. It is also good if schools stop assuming that any boy who turns up in a skirt is making a statement about their gender identity.
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby mishawakaskirt » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:29 pm

Stu wrote:The trouble is that stores still sell clothes in gendered categories. If they stopped doing that, it would encourage both boys and girls to experiment and be a bit more adventurous. It is also good if schools stop assuming that any boy who turns up in a skirt is making a statement about their gender identity.


Frankly I as well as most people want our clothing divided into two genders. Just searching the men's department can be a daunting task. Tossing everything together will only frustrate most people and parents.
Then in the article it states "It says clothing choices should not be based on sex or gender, and flexibility is urged to help pupils undergoing gender reassignment." End quote. There it is again. Pushing kids toward gender reassignment. Why the push for gender reassignment????? That term keeps coming up. This push will have disastrous consequences. For people, it's best not to plant this idea in any childs mind. What child don't have times where they don't fit in or feel uncomfortable in their body? Most of my school years I didn't fit in, I was not cool, not athletic, not rough and tumble, liked stuffed animals, in middle school I discovered skirts. That was then, I grew up to be a average 40 something man,married to a great wife.(other than she hates my skirting) I cringe at the thought of me if I had grown up now in school. I'd be labeled as trans, and slated for hormone replacement therapy. Again why the push? And mostly for the boys to be girls? Everybody seems to assume if a boy or man wears a skirt he is unhappy with his manhood? Butchering an otherwise healthy individual. Some things just can't be undone. Woe to the adults that mislead a child to wrongly change gender. Do we show every woman the same contempt if they are wearing trousers and a T-shirt saying that they must want to be a man? Me and my wife go around on this sometimes. I'll point out a woman in jeans, short hair and t shirt, and say she looks butch, must want to be a guy. My wife roll's her eyes at me. I'll say well you say I want to be a woman because I like wearing skirts. This usually never achieve anything positive, but I try to make a point.
Mishawakaskirt @2wayskirt on Twitter

Avoid the middle man, wear a kilt or skirt.
User avatar
mishawakaskirt
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Mishawaka, INDIANA USA

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby Sinned » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:05 am

I'm not sure that most people DO want clothing assigned to two genders. There is a substantial portion of clothing that can be worn by either men or women - T-shirts, jumpers, trousers etc and a very small proportion that are geared only to one sex or another. By merging these it is actually EASIER to find what you want. If you want a jumper then all the jumpers are together and by removing the Female/Male distinction you open up a new world of styles, colours, patterns and textures. Because of the drabness of the male fashion at the moment MOH will ask if I am interested in looking at the men's clothes [0] and a cursory glance convinces me that there is nothing there that I am interested in buying so I say No.

[0] Racks of black, blue, brown and grey do not interest me. The range of colours on the other side of the aisle do.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
User avatar
Sinned
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 3550
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: York, England

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby crfriend » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:04 pm

Sinned makes some good points here, although I suspect that merging the two sections in which most of the clothes would work for either sex would complicate matters for the guys who tend to shop with a "surgical strike" style, and having everything all together would slow the matter down somewhat.

The other issue with that notion, however, is that sizing would have to be unified and accurate -- and one cannot post vanity-sizes in such a system if one is to retain any sort of credibility. The gals will get torqued off because they just saw their numeric size jump (again) and the guys will get aggravated because they'd have to maintain a "lookup table" of different measurements. I think that social inertia will keep the idea from going very far, save possibly for children's clothing.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 10132
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby weeladdie18 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:29 pm

My recent experience is that size of a female garment relative to U.K. Size varies from different
countries of manufacture.
By mixing male measurements and female size numbers on the same display rail will
confuse the issue.....The foreign metric sizes are not the same as the U.K. equivalent imperial measurement...... This is the way the sizing of many school uniform skirts are measured.

My opinion is that if a boy wishes to wear a skirt.....
let him choose a style of skirt which is suitable for him to wear.....
I do feel that a male will choose a different style of skirt outfit to the style of skirt outfit
worn by the female.

There is a difference between a Man in a Skirt and a Man who wishes to appear as a woman.
This is where the difference in the gender of the skirt outfit may occur.
weeladdie18
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby weeladdie18 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:02 pm

I feel that we are taking a hiding to nothing if we wish to purchase Male Skirts as the manufacture
and marketing of such a garment is not economically practical.

If we look at the photos of a boy in his school skirt outfit ....he does not have a schoolgirls hairstyle.
He does not wish to appear as a female.....perhaps this should be the end of the debate as far as
the school is concerned..............
I have been lead to believe that It is unfortunate that the Press wish to drag such incidents through
the gutter and misreport any such issues.
weeladdie18
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby weeladdie18 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:36 pm

The Psycology of Perception is interesting......watch the Human Race out on the street and work out
how you can identify the gender of each pedestrian who passes you.
Each human has their individual shape and style of dress,.....
How do you actually assess their gender ?
weeladdie18
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby Sinned » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:33 pm

Yeah, I know my idea was a bit simplistic and I must admit that the fashion industry's farting messing about with the distaff measurements and appealing to vanity is a major stumbling block. Not to mention harmonising male and female measurements. Let's face it the fashion house DO want to keep sizing fluid and mixed up. If other areas such as mobile phones and computer equipment can't agree on standards then fashion really has NFC :!:
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
User avatar
Sinned
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 3550
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: York, England

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby Caultron » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:39 pm

weeladdie18 wrote:...There is a difference between a Man in a Skirt and a Man who wishes to appear as a woman...

This is certainly true. Crossdressers, transvestites, transsexuals, and men who simply like to wear skirts are all different categories, even though some blurring may occur.

weeladdie18 wrote:...This is where the difference in the gender of the skirt outfit may occur.

There are so many kinds of women's skirts that it's difficult to imagine some new kind of skirt that only men would wear.

One problem with clothing is that, in it's plainest form, it obscures the gender of the wearer. As individuals, though, most people like to express their gender and know the gender of others, and so the idea of different clothes for different genders arises. But here again, as those of us here exemplify, some blurring tends to occur.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby pelmut » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:50 am

weeladdie18 wrote:By mixing male measurements and female size numbers on the same display rail will
confuse the issue.....

In U.K. charity shops, the women's sizes are numerical (12, 14, 16, etc) and the mens are descriptive (small, medium, large, XL etc).  I find I need a 12 or 14 skirt but a 16 - 20 top, because women are proportioned differently.  Once that is sorted out, there is no difficuty other than the usual failure of manufacturers to label the sizes correctly.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
pelmut
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 856
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:36 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby Ralph » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:33 pm

pelmut wrote:In U.K. charity shops, the women's sizes are numerical (12, 14, 16, etc) and the mens are descriptive (small, medium, large, XL etc).  I find I need a 12 or 14 skirt but a 16 - 20 top, because women are proportioned differently.  Once that is sorted out, there is no difficuty other than the usual failure of manufacturers to label the sizes correctly.


In the US, I can't even be sure that numerical sizes will be the same physical measurements from one brand to another - a size 18 in one style will fit me just fine while a size 20 in another style is too tight. Sometimes even within the same brand two different styles will have vastly different measurements for the same size number. Add to that "size inflation", to assuage modern, larger women's egos. What might have been a size 16 back 20 or 40 years ago is now a size 10, same measurements, just so the amply endowed lady can still convince herself she's petite. Which means that even smaller sizes are now size zero. What's next, negative sizes?

Interesting that you need a larger top than bottom. For me it's the other way around. Most of my girth is in the middle, so I have to buy skirts and dresses to fit a 42-inch waist... but a dress sized for that big a waist has enough extra room in the balcony to accomodate 46 to 50 inches of bosom, which obviously I don't have. So my choices are:
  • Buy something that fits my chest but squeezes painfully at the waist
  • Buy something that fits the waist but needs a great deal of alteration in the bodice
  • Buy separates of different sizes
  • Make my own

No matter which way I go, I end up looking horribly frumpy, like I should be tethered to a mast lest I float away.
Ralph!
Ralph
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Welsh schoolboy in skirt uniform protest

Postby Sinned » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:51 am

I'm with pelmut in this as I also take a 16-20 top and 14-16 lower. It was only when I started looking into all this skirts and tops and dresses that I realised that I must have big shoulders which presents the same problem as either being big around the waist and fitting on top or not fitting on top and fitting around the waist. That's the main reason that I have to consider the style of dress very, very carefully and mainly wear separates. I could handle the sizing that used to mean something - take waist size and subtract 20, so a 36 waist would be a size 16, 34 waist a size 14. Sadly there is no equivalent for dress sizes as there were measurements done in the 1930's, 50's and later and tables produced. Despite attempts to produce standards, I think that any Government has largely given up. There are perceptions as to what the sizes mean but those perceptions don't really amount to anything. Each manufacturer defines their own sizing and one will bear very little relationship to another. I came across this article which just about sums things up: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/08/11/the-absurdity-of-womens-clothing-sizes-in-one-chart/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9b8270f0b580
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
User avatar
Sinned
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 3550
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: York, England


Return to In the News / Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron