Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Sinned » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:31 pm

In terms of masculinity I came across this article:

"What The Gillette Advert Gets Wrong About Modern Masculinity

Fernando Desouches

The Gillette TV ad that references bullying, the #MeToo movement and toxic masculinity has been the source of some outcry, with criticism ranging from it disrespecting “masculine men” to being “feminist propaganda”.

But for me, its crime is falling into the ‘progressive man’ trap. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not all bad. For a start, Gillette seems to have understood that the concept of masculinity is in crisis. Which it is. Furthermore, it has acknowledged the importance from a commercial and social perspective of changing the narrative about what it means to be a man. And about time, too, given that it has been responsible for reinforcing so many outdated and unhelpful male gender stereotypes.

As a leading brand which has spent many years building an image of success for men that has got us where we are now, it’s only right – and, probably, commercially imperative - that it acknowledges this (even tacitly, as in this case). It is laudable, too, that Gillette appears willing to now take responsibility by being a champion for a different definition of masculinity.

But there’s a but. Men maybe in crisis, but they are not the enemy. Yes, some men have done wrong things that hurt women as well as other men, but it is also true that most men are good men, with good intentions and values. Yet this piece of film uses lazy stereotyping that is little better than the rugged models stroking their chiselled chins after a shave that people Gillette’s past advertising campaigns for so many years by.

The underlying issue is that most men have been told since they were boys to behave in a particular way, despite who they really are. They have been expected to repress certain emotions and exaggerate others - to perform appropriately to be considered as ‘real men’. The real enemy here, then, is the word ‘perform’. For if we perform who we are instead of being who we are most of the time, we will live in pain. And so we are.

Anxiety, addictions, a disproportionate proportion of male suicide, increasing levels of violence to themselves or to others, and other symptoms, are showing this clearly.
The situation is so bad that the American Psychological Association recently issued guidelines to psychologists on how to improve male health. Men are in crisis, and not necessarily through their own making. Change is needed. And brand communications can - and must - be part of the solution. But this new ad from Gillette doesn’t do that.

Recently, many brands have sought to counter traditional ways of being a man simply by presenting men with a new, more progressive – and equally stereotypical and unrealistic - way of being. Telling men that all they need is to be vulnerable and emotional is simply trying to force one trait to replace another. That’s what’s going on in this ad, and it’s clumsy and patronising.

The end result is a ‘conservative vs neo-liberal’ style fight that doesn’t serve men … and, arguably, doesn’t exist in real life, either. Our recent research at New Macho paints a new and nuanced picture of male identity. Traditional men and progressive men are not who you think they are, we found after talking to 2,000 men and women in the UK. In fact, neither seems likely to be a particularly useful category any more as men can be very progressive and very traditional simultaneously.

At issue, then, is Gillette’s focus on telling men how they need to behave and failure to help them to feel comfortable being who they really are. There is no demonstration of any understanding that not all men are the same. A smarter campaign would build a new aspiration for men - one where men are not defined by performing what they think is expected, but by being true to their honest values and beliefs. One where there is understanding that different men are, well, different.

Time to wake up, then, Gillette. Because there’s only one thing that will make men the best a man can be: himself.

Fernando Desouches is managing director of New Macho at creative agency BBD Perfect Storm, specialising in advertising to men

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/spo ... li=BBoPWjQ"
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby STEVIE » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:22 pm

Hi Grok et al,
Check pics and looks for hats and MIS.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby crfriend » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:07 pm

Sinned wrote:Fernando Desouches is managing director of New Macho at creative agency BBD Perfect Storm, specialising in advertising to men

I must admit I recoiled when I read that comment because machismo is one of the factors that torment most normal guys no end because they're expected to play a role that they find abhorrent. Being "macho" is a nasty and perverted view of manhood and masculinity.

The very best parts of proper masculinity are balance, fortitude, and contemplativeness. Raw emotion needs to be balanced out with compassion, fortitude is needed, not just for vanquishing enemies, but sometimes for just getting through an average day at work (which is getting ever and ever more toxic), and contemplativeness allows the proper use of the brain which, ultimately, controls everything. Taking away any of those components has the potential to wreak havoc, and that's what we're seeing today. The last male public figure that seemed to actually have it all together -- visibly -- in the USA was Barack Obama, and he's widely reviled in many segments of "society". One of the complaints I've heard levelled at him was that he was "too cerebral". What on gods' green Earth is that supposed to mean? Do we really want somebody in that sort of position going off half-cocked because he didn't think before starting a war or shutting a government down?

Only when men are not just allowed to -- but be actively encouraged to -- make use of their full range of abilities will this get any better. And it's going to take generations for that to properly bear fruit because there are an awful lot of men alive today that have no clue what nuance or restraint are.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby moonshadow » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:14 am

Sinned wrote:In terms of masculinity I came across this article:

"What The Gillette Advert Gets Wrong About Modern Masculinity


I saw the Gillette commercial.

I wasn't really too sure what to make of it. Seems it has a lot of people upset. Thankfully I don't set my moral compass by the direction of a razor blade company so... meh...

Looks like they failed anyway (1.2 million "dislikes" so far)... just drove the battle of the sexes into new territory. I'm guessing a lot of men didn't quite get the message. I might suggest next time they jettison the man-bashing... that might help... but what do I know?... I'm just a creepy old mountain boy.... Have at it.. I don't have stock in the company. *shurgs*
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby dillon » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:20 am

Advertisers to women:
Be thin...
Be thick...
Make your butt rounder...
Make your butt skinnier...
Change your hair color...
Change your hair style...
Wear more makeup...
Go natural...
Pants are slimming...
Dresses are feminine...
Look younger...
Seem mature...
Diet and work out...
Eat more chocolate...

Women reply: "'K"

Advertiser to men:
Try and be less shitty...

Men reply: "Don't tell us what to do!"
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Caultron » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:14 am

dillon wrote:Advertisers to women...

Good one.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:35 am

Perhaps I should follow the links before I dive too deep into this, but Sinned, I REALLY like your contributions to this thread. The quote from that article was so unbelievably right on as to be astounding.

As to Carl's points, first off, we have to remember that this Ferdinand DesSouches is an advertising guy, so he has to play off of existing perceptions to create new perceptions. In today's view, "macho" is the pinnacle and therefore the ultimate standard of masculinity. You're quite right Carl, its a toxic standard, so we need a new one, hence a "New Macho."

Think of it as a compromise, and before you get your underpants into a twist, remember that our country was built on compromise. The original articles of the US Constitution are in many ways a patchwork of compromises. Forgive the memory capabilities of my 68 year old brain, I can't remember all of the ones we were taught in public school history (civics?), but the two that stick out are the Connecticut Compromise, that instead of having a legislature based on representing each state equally or one based on representing the population of each state as equally as possible we have two legislative bodies that must both pass a proposal for it to be eligible for signature into law by the (hopefully wise and discerning) President and the 3/5ths compromise, that in apportioning representatives for the House thereof we count slaves as 3/5ths of a person. As repugnant as the whole idea of slavery is to our modern mind, let alone considering them as only 3/5ths of a person, it was a necessary work around, a kluge if you will, to keep everyone left in the US on board. Even though the legitimacy it gave to slavery lead to our Civil War some 60 years later, it gave the country the breathing room it needed to get started and see what worked and what didn't. In short, we can't allow the ideal to be the enemy of improvement.

If you don't believe that women in the US are the social and political inferiors of males, just ask one.

That's not to say that men don't feel that they and their position in society is under attack. The latter most definitely is, because it's based on the false premise that men are and should be superior to women. So the notion that hostility to men wearing skirts is based on some sense that such a sartorial choice is somehow betraying one's sex or disrupting the foundations of society is anything but far-fetched.

What I find far-fetched is the notion that such a reaction or sentiment is common or widespread. As I have stated in any number of other posts, my default clothing choice is a dress, wherever I am going. I've been out in public in a number of states in skirts and dresses. Backlash, nearly zip.

I can't say for sure what people make of my change in wardrobe. My guess is not much, except that I'm now being quite genuine and have nice looking legs, which they would have had no other way of knowing. I know for sure there were at least two or three women who, since seeing me in dresses, are quite certain that I'm a hetero male. Though I did meet another who asked if, I "ever dress like a man." I told her, "I AM dressed as a man; a man who wears dresses." Her response was to drag out my Indeed head shot that showed me in a dress shirt and tie. Hey, I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid, of course my Indeed shot shows me in conventional business attire. It even still fills a quarter of my closet space.
Last edited by Pdxfashionpioneer on Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Sinned » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:38 am

Good response, Dave, and thanks for the mention. Like many others here I try and add content which is relevant to our cause. I didn't pass comment on the Gillette article because I thought that we were intelligent enough to see through the BS and make up our own minds about it. If the advert was controversial then the article just brings forth someone's view on it to bring the controversy out.

I would never DARE to ask a woman that question. Not if I still wanted my head to be attached to my shoulders! Of course they aren't inferior or supoerior - only different and I'll still never understand them and especially the one I'm married to.

Skirts I can relate to - totally. And the styles for me are just about there. Dresses are harder work for me in terms of finding ones that suit my body style. My mind is coming round to realising that they aren't forbidden any more and I am learning. Like Carl, I'm not there yet and maybe never will be but at least your example and others has shown me that men can present themselves in a dress and not be considered outlandish.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby moonshadow » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:03 am

dillon wrote:Advertisers to women:
Be thin...
Be thick...
Make your butt rounder...
Make your butt skinnier...
Change your hair color...
Change your hair style...
Wear more makeup...
Go natural...
Pants are slimming...
Dresses are feminine...
Look younger...
Seem mature...
Diet and work out...
Eat more chocolate...

Women reply: "'K"

Advertiser to men:
Try and be less shitty...

Men reply: "Don't tell us what to do!"


I can appreciate the message you're trying to get across here. I won't deny that some men can be asses. I think what upset many people (and frankly caused me to at least roll my eyes) when they/I saw the commercial, was that once again, women are off the hook as far as bad behavior goes. No one dare call a girl out... no sir!

I'm reminded of this today, while out running around in the coal fields, stopped in Richlands, and noted another woman and her husband about fall over themselves in obnoxious laughter at my appearance. I'm not saying that men can't improve, I am saying that toxic masculinity knows no gender boundaries, many women are just as guilty and certainly have the ability to bully too... so why not pepper in some females in that ad? Masculinity and femininity are not confined to sex, there can be masculine women and feminine men.

I'm just trying to figure out why only men are held accountable for "toxic masculinity" and women get off scot free?

Anyone who doesn't think girls have the ability to be ass holes have never been a man wearing a feminine skirt in the public. Yes, most women are pleasant and offer compliments, but there have been some nasties too. Such as the carload of them shouting "HEY FAGGOT!" over and over again....

But girls will be girls I guess.... :roll:
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby crfriend » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:00 am

moonshadow wrote:[...] Such as the carload of them shouting "HEY FAGGOT!" over and over again....

The proper response to that is to ignore the noise, and -- only if pressed -- express the sentiment of, "And why should I be attracted to you lot? I prefer women."
But girls will be girls I guess.... :roll:

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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Fred in Skirts » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:27 am

Some times I wonder why we let them out of the house to begin with.

Women were supposed to clean the house have dinner ready when the man of the house came home and to have children and keep them out of everyones hair. They were subservient to their husbands and had to keep the household running. They were not allowed to think or say anything unless they were asked.

Men ruled everything!!! :lol:
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:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not"
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:07 am

Men ruled everything!!!


Except their wives!
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby oldsalt1 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:00 pm

Grok wrote:It just occurred to me-a man with the right hat and the right skirt could be a dashing figure.


After I took this photo I had to run to catch the train does that qualify for a Dashing figure :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Fred in Skirts » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:29 pm

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Men ruled everything!!!


Except their wives!


They liked to think they did at least! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Fred :kiltdance:

:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Gusto10 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:54 am

Grok wrote:It just occurred to me-a man with the right hat and the right skirt could be a dashing figure.

check out under pictures hats and MIS...
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