Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matter?

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Upskirting likely to become an offence

Postby shadowfax » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:44 pm

An update.
Upskirting is highly likely to become a criminal offence in England and Wales soon, now that the prime minister has given her support. :)
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... roduce-ban
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/ju ... rs-in-jail
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby Charlie » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:28 pm

This was widely reported on the BBC news as a bill to make photographing up women's skirts an offence (as it should be).
Nothing was said about men's skirts or kilts which annoyed me, so I went to the horses mouth (government website) to find the actual wording of the bill. Fortunately, the government is a bit more switched on than the BBC news editors (who don't, or won't, recognise that some men also wear skirts), and the bill is not gender-specific. Actually its an amendment to an existing voyeurism law.

I found the bill here:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2017-2019/0174/18174.pdf

To paraphrase:
A person (“A”) commits an offence if A —
(a) without another person (“B”) consenting, and
(b) without any reasonable belief that B consents, operates equipment beneath B’s clothing with the intention of enabling A or another person (“C”), to observe B’s private parts [the bill is much more specific, but this is a family show].
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby shadowfax » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:00 pm

Charlie wrote:This was widely reported on the BBC news as a bill to make photographing up women's skirts an offence (as it should be).
Nothing was said about men's skirts or kilts which annoyed me, so I went to the horses mouth (government website) to find the actual wording of the bill. Fortunately, the government is a bit more switched on than the BBC news editors (who don't, or won't, recognise that some men also wear skirts), and the bill is not gender-specific. Actually its an amendment to an existing voyeurism law.

Emily Maitlis on BBC Newsnight got it right and said "person's". Not women's. :)
BBC iPlayer link (29:17)
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby FranTastic444 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:20 am

Ray wrote:When I have worn kilts on nights out in town....


Hi Ray. Just as a matter of interest, have you ever worn skirts or kilts in the West Midlands or just when you are on your hols / travels? I don't think it is something that I could ever do in Walsall, Cannock, Dudley, Brum etc. - just too much chance of a negative reaction.
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby Sinned » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:10 am

FT444, my son lives in Solihull and I have worn a skirt out and about without any problems. We went to a local pub to watch an England football match as I recall. No adverse reactions. But then you won't know until you try it. There's nothing to fear but fear itself.
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby oldsalt1 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:27 pm

There should be no difference in the rules . The problem is that most of these laws were written in a different. time .I would think that as they are rewritten the laws will treat both sexes eaqually

I think that anyone who tries to upskirt is a sick individual. Now excuse me I have a pair of shoes that I have to polish the tips :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby Ray » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:29 pm

FT444 - frequently. No problems at all.

Most recent one was in Reading (okay, not West Mids) when I wore my green non tartan kilt suit to a work conference. My 200 colleagues loved it! More than one asked me, jokingly - “why are you wearing a skirt?” My three word response? “ Because I can!”

Birmingham is pretty civilised. Kilts/skirts are fine.
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby rivegauche » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:10 pm

It is already illegal in Scotland under the Sexual Offences Act 2009. It uses the word "person".
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby FranTastic444 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:31 am

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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby moonshadow » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:33 am

Charlie wrote:This was widely reported on the BBC news as a bill to make photographing up women's skirts an offence (as it should be).
Nothing was said about men's skirts or kilts which annoyed me, so I went to the horses mouth (government website) to find the actual wording of the bill. Fortunately, the government is a bit more switched on than the BBC news editors (who don't, or won't, recognise that some men also wear skirts), and the bill is not gender-specific. Actually its an amendment to an existing voyeurism law.

I found the bill here:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... /18174.pdf

To paraphrase:
A person (“A”) commits an offence if A —
(a) without another person (“B”) consenting, and
(b) without any reasonable belief that B consents, operates equipment beneath B’s clothing with the intention of enabling A or another person (“C”), to observe B’s private parts [the bill is much more specific, but this is a family show].
Charlie


That's the problem with broadcast news....

Wonder how many wars were waged or other lives lost over a minor omission in a soundbite??
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby Big and Bashful » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:49 pm

FranTastic444 wrote:
Ray wrote:When I have worn kilts on nights out in town....


Hi Ray. Just as a matter of interest, have you ever worn skirts or kilts in the West Midlands or just when you are on your hols / travels? I don't think it is something that I could ever do in Walsall, Cannock, Dudley, Brum etc. - just too much chance of a negative reaction.


I have worn a kilt several times on nights out in Sheffield and also for most of a week on one canal trip on the Llangollen canal. No problems, hardly any questions other than what tartan I wore. Once in Sheffield someone lifted the back of the kilt as I was walking through town, they were rather more surprised than I was!
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Update on Upskirting bill

Postby shadowfax » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:47 am

The upskirting bill was discussed in committee on the 2nd of July.
Link to official Hansard report on the committee/meeting
Following that it has moved on and the Public Bill Committee will next meet on Tuesday 10 July 2018 to take written and oral evidence for discussion.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/news ... -no2-bill/
The Public Bill Committee must conclude by Thursday 12 July 2018.
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby Charlie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:17 pm

This came up again in the BBC news today. They still touted this as an offence to photograph up a woman's skirt (not a person's skirt which it says in the original bill), with the addition of an amendment to make misogyny a hate crime. No mention of misandry (hatred of men). They interviewed a man who thought that, in the interests of equality, hatred of men should also be a hate crime. Must say I agree with him. Hopefully the politicians are more clued up than the BBC news room.
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby moonshadow » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:29 pm

1984

Enter the thought police.
"We all have the tendency to make simple things difficult, but the spirit that abides within us achieves its own ends by making all difficult things simple."
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Re: Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matte

Postby moonshadow » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:34 pm

Better speak your mind now. Won't be long they'll be shutting this site down for hate crimes.
"We all have the tendency to make simple things difficult, but the spirit that abides within us achieves its own ends by making all difficult things simple."
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