Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing skirt

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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby crfriend » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:59 am

john62 wrote:I think in the context of Old Testament law a man would be thought of as an abomination [if he grabbed a knitting-needle to dispatch an assailant in the heat of the moment], that is why in the time of Christ there were the scribes and scholars that followed hundreds of laws that made ordinary life impossible and Christ called them vipers.

So why are such "laws" enshrined in Christian scripture? One would think that they would have been expunged as being the work of "vipers". (Libel, there, on snakes, mind.)

I'm not trying to be offensive here. I'm trying to wrap my head around just one of the (many) incongruities of the scripture of one family of religions.
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby moonshadow » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:32 am

crfriend wrote:So why are such "laws" enshrined in Christian scripture? One would think that they would have been expunged as being the work of "vipers". (Libel, there, on snakes, mind.)


Because it has nothing to do with Christian scripture. Most Christians don't care, even those who object don't care enough to try and stop us. The very small number who do go out of their way aren't doing so in the interest of promoting any ideal of Christ or Christianity, but their own twisted world view of the way things should be and they use a warped interpretation of scripture to impose their views on others, and armed with the fact that our western society (in America anyway) leans strongly towards biblical law and doctrine, they already have an advantage.

It's not just men who wear skirts, lets face it, virtually everything that makes America what it is, is a sin or some sort. These same people will rattle on about homosexuality, working on Sundays, women who wear trousers, kids using cell phones, rock and roll, long haired men, women in the work place, people who practice other religions, atheist, interracial romance, Christians who follow a different denomination than they do, even people who read other versions other than the "Original King James" bible, basically anything that pertains to modern life. They want western culture to return to what it was during what they consider it's zenith, that being the 1950's "Father knows best" mentality.

The fault in their logic is they champion an "American free society", but when the practices of the "free society" are at odds with what they view as moral and correct, then are quick to write their legislator to ban it! That's not freedom gentlemen. That's tyranny.
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby Ray » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:06 pm

See that last paragraph? Perfectly summed up, Moon.
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby john62 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:36 am

Christ only gave three commands 1) Love the Lord Your God with heart, body and mind
2) Love your neighbour as you as you love yourself
3) Go and make disciples with the above.
Everything else is cultural or person made.

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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby Jim » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:20 pm

john62 wrote:Christ only gave three commands 1) Love the Lord Your God with heart, body and mind
2) Love your neighbour as you as you love yourself
3) Go and make disciples with the above.
Everything else is cultural or person made.

I think you can find a lot more commands that Christ gave. Read the Sermon on the Mount for a number of examples. I do think they can be properly summed up with your #1 and #2, but "love your enemy" and "don't lay up treasures on earth" are also clear commands, among many other examples.
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby john62 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:36 pm

But all the other "commands" relate back to the first two, eg you can not have two masters either you love your creator or something else like money.

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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby Daryl » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:51 am

crfriend wrote:Also, neither the Old nor the New Testaments have any relevance whatsoever to non-Christians. Just saying.


How about the works of Shakespeare, or the Bhagavad Gita, or the Historia Brittonum? I think maybe you mean "authority" not "relevance". (you tell me)

Given that so many of our neighbours try to live in ways that they feel are biblically informed, and that the cultures we live in are entirely conditioned by what has been made of the Bible, I'd say that the Bible has a lot of relevance to us no matter what our religious inclinations are.
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby Daryl » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:58 am

john62 wrote:But all the other "commands" relate back to the first two, eg you can not have two masters either you love your creator or something else like money.


I always liked the way Clint Eastwood said it in Pale Rider. "Can't serve God and Mammon both."
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby Ray » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:41 am

Daryl, I like your use of the word "relevance". I see your point. Although I side with Carl on this one, it's true that modern western society is informed by, amongst other tomes, the bible (be good and all that). I'm sure the Quran is also influential in providing guidance (muslims in the UK, for example, pay tithes (zakat) to benefit charitable causes.

However, I agree with Carl. The bible, God, Jesus et al are utterly irrelevant to me and about 90% of my friends. We don't believe in gods or spiritual beings. We see religions as frequently corrupting. We see churches as beautiful buildings, but are unimpressed with what goes on inside. In that sense, Carl is correct.

In the UK, religion is a receding concept. Last year, a survey found that 53% of Britons did not have a religion. For under-24s, that number rises to 71%.

I'm delighted that many people can find peace and comfort with a faith system. I wouldn't seek to change their views. However if someone quoted Deuteronomy at me, I'd probably look at them as if they were unhinged.
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby Jim » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:22 pm

Ray wrote:I'm delighted that many people can find peace and comfort with a faith system. I wouldn't seek to change their views. However if someone quoted Deuteronomy at me, I'd probably look at them as if they were unhinged.

In talking about skirts, I do not think it unhinged to say "this Deuteronomy quote is why some religious people disapprove of skirts." Though not unhinged, I think it inaccurate; the primary reason would usually be discomfort with blurring sexual boundaries. As a Christian who takes biblical authority seriously, I would wonder why this particular law for the ancient Jews still counted while the surrounding verses don't. One can also seriously defend the proposition that the verse is misinterpreted or even mistranslated. But it's relevant because it affects many people's opinion.
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby Ray » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:57 pm

Jim - while others may hold that verse to be the law or similar - to me, its unhinged thinking. The men wore dresses or robes in their day. Women now wear what was male gendered clothing. If that's not blurring the boundaries, what is? Do they get both biblical barrels? I take it kilts are okay. What about a non-tartan kilt? What if the kilt were denim? Where is that point where a sartorial chap crosses the line and transgresses? Where will that line be in 60 years' time?

So if someone cites a sexist antidiluvian verse aimed at me/my attire, from a book that I see as a work of fiction (I appreciate that you have different views) then yes, I'll think they are bonkers, have a screw loose, haven't looked around themselves recently, aren't exactly on the same planet as me - or any other metaphor you wish to use. You have rightly picked up on the inconsistency of that verse with others. I'm not, erm, well versed in the bible to comment with any authority on it, but I trust your comment on the subject.

I could take umbrage at having an alien belief system imposed on me, but luckily, I'd be too surprised to be angry or offended.

I don't believe in commandments - unless my boss makes them. I'll take note of these - well, most of them!

So yes - I'd think that any person staying that verse with conviction would be somewhat unhinged. It's unlikely to happen. Most people I meet are, well, hinged....
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby moonshadow » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:17 pm

The bible...

Had humanity on a pretty short leash for a long time.

About a hundred years ago women started to slip out of their collar.

Today though some women choose to stay in the yard by the men they are under no obligation to.

Men on the other hand are not only still stuck on the lead cord but they have managed to get themselves wrapped around a tree.

Now people like us, who buck gender roles have also slipped out of the collar and are roaming free with the women.

The remaining men sit two feet from the tree their stuck to barking and yapping at us because they can't figure out how to unravel themselves.

Someone wants to live by the bible? No problem here.... stay on the lead or in the yard, hey it's the best way to not get hit by a car.

But there are some of us who know better than to run out in traffic.

I choose freedom and will accept the risk.

After all... all dogs go to heaven anyway!
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby skirtyscot » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:14 am

Well said, Ray.

I do wonder about those surveys though. I mean, where do they find the 47%/29%? Not in British churches, that's for sure!
Keep on skirting,

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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby Ray » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:42 am

Indeed. My father goes to church. There must be about 8 people attending on Sunday morning. It's sad to see.
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Re: Christian Wilkins writes: 'Why I'll never stop wearing s

Postby Daryl » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:44 pm

Ray wrote:Daryl, I like your use of the word "relevance". I see your point. Although I side with Carl on this one, it's true that modern western society is informed by, amongst other tomes, the bible (be good and all that). I'm sure the Quran is also influential in providing guidance (muslims in the UK, for example, pay tithes (zakat) to benefit charitable causes.

However, I agree with Carl. The bible, God, Jesus et al are utterly irrelevant to me and about 90% of my friends. We don't believe in gods or spiritual beings. We see religions as frequently corrupting. We see churches as beautiful buildings, but are unimpressed with what goes on inside. In that sense, Carl is correct.

In the UK, religion is a receding concept. Last year, a survey found that 53% of Britons did not have a religion. For under-24s, that number rises to 71%.

I'm delighted that many people can find peace and comfort with a faith system. I wouldn't seek to change their views. However if someone quoted Deuteronomy at me, I'd probably look at them as if they were unhinged.


Yeah, me too. I'd also wonder why he or she wanted to assert dominance in that moment, and why they would choose such means to do it with.

I think this is what our understanding of religion has been reduced to: "faith systems" or "beliefs in gods". I think most of us (myself included) merrily and blithely ignore our own religious views because they are not so easy to identify, or to identify as religious, because they aren't represented by any organised encapsulation that confesses religiosity. We believe in things like logic, arithmetic, beauty, love, fairness, the individual, causality, and essence, but we may consider these "facts" not mere "beliefs".

Seeing a wider range of possible ways of understanding religious scripture has made me more willing to view it as part of our wisdom heritage than as merely optional ideological foundations or superstitions.

As for damaging the views that give peace and comfort to many, I don't see any options. The views held by people today evolved over time. Violence was done to old ideas (and sometimes to the people who held them). By even discussing this I am risking doing damage to someone's views.

Here's a question worth wondering about, I think. Did religion influence society, or was it influenced by it, or was it some combination of both?
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