skirtcafe.org

Grok wrote:Theory that brains come in 3 basic types: 1. Male. 2. Female. 3. Balanced
https://365tests.com/personality-tests/ ... ale-brain/

That was good for a laugh, so I'm going to assume you were joking with us. A watered-down version of the COGIATI, with all of the same mistakes: Archaic assumptions about "male" and "female" brain traits that are not in the least backed up by science. I think I get more accurate analyses out of fortune cookies

crfriend wrote:The terrifying thing is that this is a societal change that has occurred within a single human lifetime. What have we done to ourselves?

We have not done anything to our selves other than let the FEMALES decide what we should be and not what we actually are. The feminist movement has tried to turn us into crazy lunatics with murder on our minds. We have been unable to stop it because we did not do anything at the start of it.. It mat be too late now...

I doubt that today’s youth is any biologically different than any preceding generation, and think that two things are at play. First, their examples of masculinity and femininity are now so media-fostered that it’s absurdly intimidating to even pretend to meet those models, let alone compete in that arena. That fact may make youth less inclined to identify with those ideals. In other words, the goalposts have been moved farther away. And that’s sad. Second, and I see this in a positive light, youth now feels less compelled to conform with gender identities, traditional roles, and expectations. In that regard they are reaping the promise of social liberation. I wish they could feel free to identify with their biological sex without the baggage of gender role and sexual preference expectations.

moonshadow wrote:Here's another mental noodle

What makes a male a man?

What makes a female a woman?

These are not rhetorical questions...

Edit: Added strike through

Answer: When biological sex conforms with the accepted gender stereotypes.


My thoughts
Biological sex is only relevant when:
1. Wanting to procreate without medical assistance; assessing the combination of necessary hardware and software.
2. Deciding whether to have a prostate check or a pap smear.

Sexuality is only relevant when:
One is considering an intimate relationship with someone.

Gender is only relevant when:
A person wishes to portray a particular gender.

Otherwise, we are all individuals and diversity reigns supreme.

denimini wrote:Otherwise, we are all individuals and diversity reigns supreme.

Hear hear!

denimini wrote:Gender is only relevant when:
A person wishes to portray a particular gender.

Otherwise, we are all individuals and diversity reigns supreme.

If only! That first part is what puzzles me. The only way to "portray a particular gender" is to take on traits that one perceives to be exclusive to a particular gender. Physical characteristics -- breasts, hair, etc. -- are an attempt to resemble a particular sex, not a particular gender. Any traits associated with "gender" are just what society tells us that gender should be like, or (worse) what we decide the ideal model of that gender should be like.

Sometimes I wonder if folks who suffer gender dysphoria only feel that way because they exhibit traits that society tells them their gender is not allowed to have. I know for a fact I went through that in high school and college. My thought process went something like "I cry easily; I'm emotionally sensitive [due to early childhood trauma which is another long story]; I'm terrible at sports and in general physically smaller and weaker than my peers; I have a strong nurturing instinct; I love to wear dresses. Since men are not allowed to do any of those things, clearly I must be a woman trapped in a man's body!"

I long for the day when men and women [per the biological sex, not the gender] can have whatever-the-hell traits we are born with or acquire and nobody feels compelled to pigeonhole us based on those traits. I'm a man who wears dresses with a strong instinct for empathy and nurturing, but dammit I'm still a man.

Ralph wrote:I long for the day when men and women [per the biological sex, not the gender] can have whatever-the-hell traits we are born with or acquire and nobody feels compelled to pigeonhole us based on those traits. I'm a man who wears dresses with a strong instinct for empathy and nurturing, but dammit I'm still a man.

You're "less than a man" today because the definition changed under you when you weren't looking. You're the same guy, but now you're marginalised because the definition of "masculinity" changed. I'm in the same boat, and it infuriates me no end that I'm no longer classed "male" but rather as trans-* by pop-science and radical feminism. I'm also powerless to do anything about it save to raise my middle finger high and be myself.

Ralph wrote:

denimini wrote:...
Sometimes I wonder if folks who suffer gender dysphoria only feel that way because they exhibit traits that society tells them their gender is not allowed to have.

That is a huge factor in gender dysphoria and, until very recently, it has been instilled in children from a very young age.  Things are slowly changing in the U.K., but a number of groups, some claiming religion as justification for their hatred and bigotry, are fighting against this with all the misinformation they can lay their hands on.

Changing society's attitude is a lot better way forward than telling people they can only be allowed to be their authentic self if they have an operation.

I have to agree with the sentiment that much of the source of all these trans issues people are having is the insanely limiting expectations that society puts on people, especially men. I've read that male-to-female transgender folks outnumber female-to-male by about 3:1. I've also seen similar disparities cited for male suicides outnumbering female ones. I figure it has to be related, likely all due to our society's treatment of men.

Pumping these folks with drugs and cutting healthy tissue away isn't the answer. If we can succeed in changing expectations so kids can grow up with interests and emotions beyond the current box they are being stuffed in, all of society will be better off, there will be less pain and suffering, and I believe lives will literally be saved.

Guys' clothing options may be a catalyst for change, or just a barometer. Either way we should wear our skirts like lives depend on it!

Look at Crossdressers.com. There is a section for Female to Male, but the activity and number of threads in that section is very small compared to the overwhelming activities for Male to Female. So I believe society's expectations for males are really bad.

John

I don't know what box society would try to shoe horn me into.

I have male anatomy. My sense of gender identity is male. My sexual orientation is towards women.

But a woman friend described my personality as being "in between" masculine and feminine.

I wondered if I might be an androgyne, but my sense of male gender identity contradicted this. It may be that some people (seemingly cis-gendered) just aren't inclined towards rigid gender behavior, being generalists. This may include women, such as my friend. Come to think of it, none of the women friends I have had over the years has been particularly girly.

I think that I (if wearing trousers) comes across as so bland that I am under the radar.

BTW, the traditional Gender Binary male role has never much appealed to me. And I dislike the narrowness and rigidity.

And I seem to lack an instinctive preference for wearing twin-tubes below the waist.

Grok wrote:I don't know what box society would try to shoe horn me into.

I have male anatomy. My sense of gender identity is male. My sexual orientation is towards women.

But a woman friend described my personality as being "in between" masculine and feminine.

I wondered if I might be an androgyne, but my sense of male gender identity contradicted this. It may be that some people (seemingly cis-gendered) just aren't inclined towards rigid gender behavior, being generalists. This may include women, such as my friend. Come to think of it, none of the women friends I have had over the years has been particularly girly.

I think that I (if wearing trousers) comes across as so bland that I am under the radar.

BTW, the traditional Gender Binary male role has never much appealed to me. And I dislike the narrowness and rigidity.

And I seem to lack an instinctive preference for wearing twin-tubes below the waist.

Pretty much ditto. I've been called gender-fluid by my psych, and found that the current tag entitled "non-binary" to also have application.

I'm still working on how to categorize the less than tangible characteristics (personality profile, etc) that people wrongly associate with a person's sex.

BTW, my male gender identity is sort of a background thing, almost a default option. Kind of weak, really.

Like a demiguy.

Grok, I for one have no idea at all what you are on about.

skirtyscot wrote:Grok, I for one have no idea at all what you are on about.

Grok noisily inhabits an echo-chamber of his own design and is trying to get us to join in. The more he hears his echoes of how it's not possible for a man to be a man in a skirt the more he believes it.