Guy in Valdosta

[beachlion]

..... In other words, "visual noise" of the sort that deadens eyeballs and stunts minds. That it is ubiquitous is no real excuse.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm still in learning mode.

[VoxClamantis]

Now that we're on a slightly different vein, I will say that I *DO* have denim skirts. In fact, I have a barely fingertip dark blue one from Old Navy that looks damn nice with a white polo. One time I was headed over to a mall escalator when a woman on the descending one called out "nice skirt!" I smiled and thanked her. I never said denim was bad, only that it was tricky and not for the newbie. One should first inform himself of the available panoply. Medium-weight khaki also blends in well among all the cargo shorts out there which is yet another reason why i suggested that newbies begin in the summer months. I have always had reasonable sensibility when it comes to dressing myself (and in styling a few gfs on various occasions). Hiding behind an undue reliance on denim is a cop-out that reinforces the gender stereotypes that have been assigned to men for decades (i.e. that we're inept when it comes to fashion).

[oldsalt1]

Hiding behind an undue reliance on denim is a cop-out that reinforces the gender stereotypes that have been assigned to men for decades (i.e. that we're inept when it comes to fashion).

I don't consider denim as a cop out. . Are you trying to direct your article to the average Joe to help him slip on a skirt and run to the local deli . Or do you expect that his first steps are going to be on a vogue runway.

Your article makes some valid points but it is way too complicated and involved for the average man wishing to try skirts.

In addition there are a lot of words how about some photos to back up your meanderings

[Sinned]

As for denim in the workplace, I have been wearing BLACK denims since I started there over 3 years ago with complete acceptance by my employers. As for denim ( the material ) it does come in a wide range of colours - I have pairs in black, ice blue, indigo ( the conventional colour for denim which I don't really like but tolerate ), maroon, mid blue from Paul Smith, bright fire engine red and several pairs in white from such as Calvin Klein. Denim persists and never really goes out of fashion. Working in a very busy retail store on the shop floor, literally and metaphorically,I would say the most common pants that I see are denim in whatever colour and whatever the sex of the wearer. I also see denim skirts ranging from calf length to miniskirts, although naturally, only ( so far ) on women. I don't mind denim as it is sturdy, disappears into the noise of the attire of folk and lasts. I have several denim skirts from knee length to miniskirts and again in colours black, ice blue, indigo, red and white and I have worn all of them out at one time or another. I have seen denim cutoffs on women but they aren't very common but look good on the whole. Denim shorts may not be seen as much now but then fashion has a nasty habit of turning full circle at the whim of some event or person or other. But denim trousers are so common as to be invisible and thus denim skirts now become so. And why the mention of "Village People" since in this context as I can't find a connection between the group and denim skirts since none of the band members wore denim shorts of skirts but emulated the macho stereotypes of the time, builder, cowboy Indian and so on. So no, VC, I can't agree that denim isn't a material for the beginner - it is probably the most suitable material of all.

[VoxClamantis]

Well (oldsalt) I guess the timbre and vein have not changed after all (or the dogs were just sleeping).

Anyway, rather than bitching and moaning, go make your own primer. I spent at least ten to fifteen hours on mine and I'm not inclined to rewrite it just because someone rags and wanks ad nauseam. Let free-market forces decide which is better. And while you're building your own guide, consider also building your own Tower of Pisa and casting your own Liberty Bell so that the world will be more perfect in your eyes. Get a grip, dude. Mic drop; I'm outie.

[Ray]

Vox, if you're smart, you'll recognise feedback. It may be at odds with your prevailing thinking, but the smart person reflects, cogitates, and may well amend their stance. This forum, comprising skirted guys, has given a resounding view on denim skirts being ideal for the first time male skirt wearer. Denim is not alone; nobody has held it up to be the sole rig available to the first timer. Khaki, corduroy, heavy cotton et al all remain valid options, but your singling out of a unisex fabric as being inappropriate seems illogical.

Over to you. You spent a lot of time on your primer. We have given you feedback to improve it. Will you take our counsel?

[Kirbstone]

First off, I HATE Denim trousers/jeans. I never wear them except on the bi-annual outing with my German Shanty-choir, where the 'unform' requires dark jeans from the waist down. I'll have to use them again this coming September just for that group.

I have one pair of loose Denim shorts. OK. Otherwise it's knee-length A- line skirts and Denim passes muster there quite well. Just today I have had delivery after a long delay from Scotweb of a lovely Denim kilt, dark blue with orange stitching. Haven't had the opportunity to wear it yet, but it won't be long, that's for sure.

It'll be a change from tartans.

Tom

[moonshadow]

..... In other words, "visual noise" of the sort that deadens eyeballs and stunts minds. That it is ubiquitous is no real excuse.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm still in learning mode.

FYI, for those just joining in, this is mis-quoted.

Corrected:

..... In other words, "visual noise" of the sort that deadens eyeballs and stunts minds. That it is ubiquitous is no real excuse.

[crfriend]

..... In other words, "visual noise" of the sort that deadens eyeballs and stunts minds. That it is ubiquitous is no real excuse.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm still in learning mode.

"Stunt", when used as a verb in the English language, means to prevent something from growing or developing properly. This can include stunted growth in children or the stunted development of intellect.

Used as a noun, it means an act remarkable for one reason or other, e.g. "Did you see the stunt that guy did on the bicycle?" or "It's a sad matter that ultimately the entire US Apollo program was nothing more than a technological stunt to one-up a political opponent."

The above quote was an allusion to the fact that overwhelming conformity to a singular norm tends to hamper the proper development of the mind.

I love the English language. It's sometimes tough for non-native speakers to fully grasp. Heck, a lot of native speakers have trouble with it as well!

[beachlion]

If used in the same sentence I would expect a similar phrased effect on the organs. Deadens eyeballs and stuns the mind would fit the bill in my mind. But lingo-technical stunts is also a possibility.

Like I said: I'm still learning. I'm glad I'm hardened by the Dutch language. In this field there is not much that can shiver my timbers.

[Sinned]

I hope VC doesn't desert us after such a short time as I'm sure that he would have a lot to contribute and his missive was good even if flawed but then perfection is extremely difficult to achieve. I don't think I was too harsh in what I said, it wasn't just one person and I wasn't bitchin' and moanin' just putting together a coherent defence of a prevailing stance. I felt that dismissing denim so blithely would cut off one avenue for a potential recruit. Carl, you are right about opposition despite concerted opinion that is not in your favour. The Skirted Man has also written some good prose in favour of the man in the skirt. Anyway subject dropped, I've said all I want to so next topic?

[oldsalt1]

just one more bark . The article was very nice the technical data was very helpful. The length and effort consumed to write it does not give any additional credence to your opinions and conclusions . They are just that your own opinions and conclusions. It would seem that a large number of the café disagree with them. and the only thing I find that borders on "ad Nauseam " is your endless flow of self praise.
WOOF

[VoxClamantis]

LOL, bro.

If used in the same sentence I would expect a similar phrased effect on the organs. Deadens eyeballs and stuns the mind would fit the bill in my mind. But lingo-technical stunts is also a possibility.

Like I said: I'm still learning. I'm glad I'm hardened by the Dutch language. In this field there is not much that can shiver my timbers.

[Grok]

While denim skirts are not my particular interest, I can see why a novice/newbie might choose denim for his first outing.

In this context, its not the nuances that are crucial-its getting the nerve to go out wearing one pipe.

[skirtyscot]

Welcome to Skirt Cafe, Vox.

I think your blog post is excellent: very detailed and well thought out. I've no idea why a couple of guys are giving you a hard time under the guise of constructive criticism. So you don't recommend denim to the beginner; Crfriend hates it and wouldn't recommend it to anybody, but he doesn't get a roasting for it.

Please carry on giving us your thoughts and experiences. They are all useful to others who may gain confidence less quickly than you seem to have done.

Everyone else: how about you lay off him? What kind of way is that to treat a new member and like-minded man?