Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby crfriend » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:41 am

moonshadow wrote:I'll admit, you pass a law requiring businesses to treat LGBT poeple fairly [...]

And, after all those laws are passed and only you remain "unprotected" who is going to help when "they" come for you?
I too see us charging towards 1930's Germany [...]

Too late. We're already there and have been for several years. It's just that recently the Brown Shirts have been given free reign. We're in about '37 or '38 at the moment, and the clock is ticking.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 10387
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby moonshadow » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:19 am

crfriend wrote:And, after all those laws are passed and only you remain "unprotected" who is going to help when "they" come for you?


But that's the thing Carl, nobody (to my knowledge) is pushing for a higher class for anyone. They simply want equal treatment. Their rights should not, and I can see no reason why they would- come at the expense of my own.

Let's face it, with the exception of domestic law, such as divorce and custody cases [0], being a regular white guy has it's fair share of privilege in our society. When you're Protestant, white, male, cis, and straight as a red, white and blue arrow you will have no trouble obtaining gainful employment, fitting in, finding acceptance virtually anywhere. I myself had no trouble my whole life, that is until I scratched just two off my personal list. One was more jarring than the other. The one almost cost me my job, and for what it's worth, I find it a striking coincidence that my raise post-skirt outing was quite meager.

If I'm just a regular white guy, "they" won't come for me, because I'll be one of "them".

To answer the question more directly, prior to July of 2015 (when I started wearing skirts publicly) I was never "unprotected", because I was not engaging in any unorthodox or taboo activities that would have merited special "protections". Nobody is going to hassle a regular white guy for wearing jeans.

One thing of interest, I made no secret about my unorthodox spiritual situation (religious beliefs) from the onset of my employment there. Despite being not of a Christian variety, still, I was hired, and nobody harassed me about it, beeecaaauusssseeee... the freedom to practice one's own religion is a protected class. However 60 plus years ago it may have cost me my job then! It should also be noted, that though I don't hide my beliefs, I try not to be obnoxious about them at work, and I DO NOT proselytize. Though there have been a few who have badgered me about going to church. I could report that... but it's cool... that's not me.

[0] Progress is being made here all around. It wasn't long ago, if a man and woman divorced, he took care of her FOR LIFE. She ALWAYS got the kids. Now more and more men are indeed winning custody cases (I've seen it personally), and women are receiving less and less spousal support. Mostly because we've begun to empower women to take care of themselves, thus not requiring the level of support that the 1940's housewife would have required. Interestingly around here, the stories of men being raked over the coals in ugly divorce hearings tend to be in more conservative counties, as judges in those areas have an ingrained notion that women can not possibly care for themselves without the aide of a man, and likewise, women in those counties tend to not fair as well financially as their male counterparts.

Indeed, Moon, but the notion does beg the issue of, "Whose god?", does it not? That is the question that the bigots and haters never ask.

Ahh, but really there is only one answer, and one truth, and I doubt anyone has any Earthly idea what it is (myself included), so since we can not possibly know in this stage of our development what the origins of the universe truly are, then by all means, people should be free to rationalize and believe in what ever helps them sleep at night, but when we're awake, we should always aim to be kind to one another.
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Appalachian Mountains (VA)

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby crfriend » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:02 am

moonshadow wrote:[... N]obody (to my knowledge) is pushing for a higher class for anyone. They simply want equal treatment.

There's the rub -- in practise it never stops at equal.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 10387
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:48 am

crfriend wrote:
moonshadow wrote:[... N]obody (to my knowledge) is pushing for a higher class for anyone. They simply want equal treatment.

There's the rub -- in practise it never stops at equal.


How would you know that Carl? The only protected class that has achieved parity is religious zealots. One data point does not constitute a trend.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
User avatar
Pdxfashionpioneer
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:39 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby moonshadow » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:57 am

Another one,

While in Lebanon VA last week purchasing a fuel container and a small diesel can to put a little fuel in the oil tank of the new house I stopped off a the local Southern States as they sold heating oil. I was in my work uniform so there was no reason to be nervous about entering what from all appearances struck me as a highly conservative, small town, farming supply cooperative. Normally I avoid places that look like they might give me a problem, but I was in a pinch, I wasn't from around there and knew of no other place in town to purchase what I needed.

I got what I needed and left, and curiously checked their website when I got home. To take a quick pulse of a company, just have a look at their EEO policy (Equal Employment Opportunity).... needless to say I was SHOCKED......

From Southern States career page wrote:Southern States is an Equal Employment Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer and does not discriminate against individuals based on their race, color, religion or belief, national or ethnic origin, sex (including pregnancy), age, disability, sexual orientation, gender identity, veteran status, family medical history or genetic information, or any other status protected by federal, state or local laws, or regulations.


Huh.... I'da never put money on that....

Guess I shouldn't judge according to the appearance! :lol: :wink:
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Appalachian Mountains (VA)

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby hoborob » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:06 pm

I have been trying very hard to stay out of this particular discussion but I must ask the following question. The whole point of the lesbian couple suing the bakery over discrimination was that they wanted a cake that the bakery would not sell them. The question is did forcing the bakery to close get them the cake they so desperately wanted. I would think the answer is, no they did not. Did they create sympathy for their cause or did they create a backlash in the long run by forcing their opinions and rights onto others?

I look at the comments by many of our members here that when they go into a shop that will not cater to them, they leave and never shop there again and many of those shops fail when the customer base erodes away because of word of mouth that they treat their customers badly. This type of situation does create sympathy for serving everyone, while forcing someone to serve you creates anger against you. A very old statement goes something like this, "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." I would think that in the long run while laws should protect the customer of a business, we must also look out for the business owner and to protect his/her rights as well. I have seen no information that the business owner targeted this couple at all and I'm sure that if they had come in bought the cake and left, no problems would have occurred. However the situation became a problem when they made a specific request that made the owners uncomfortable and caused them anguish. So they turned down the job. Granted they told the couple why they were turning down the job which is where the problem started. Of course there is no statement made as to whether the owners told them to get out in an angry way, they simply stated they could not support this particular situation and remain true to their beliefs.

In the long run as has been pointed out, instead of now having a business that continued and this created jobs for the local community, we now have all those potential employees and the previous owners looking for jobs elsewhere. So in the end was justice served to create a better society or was justice subverted to fulfill a revenge motive?
User avatar
hoborob
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:03 pm

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby Caultron » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:43 pm

No doubt, the lesbians made a militant case out of this and pursued it for the publicity.

However.

There's been a trend lately of people seeking the right to discriminate because they claim their religion compels them to do so, and the freedom to exercise that belief is protected by freedom of religion.

And this, of course, sets up a conflict between the religious discriminator's rights and the discriminated-against person's rights to fair and equal treatment.

To me, the solution resides in separation of church and state, because that dictates that religious beliefs have no relevance in matters of law. But in matters of offsetting rights, emotional preference often prevails.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby crfriend » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:08 pm

Caultron wrote:To me, the solution resides in separation of church and state, because that dictates that religious beliefs have no relevance in matters of law. But in matters of offsetting rights, emotional preference often prevails.

To make matters worse, no solution that gets offered is going to make everybody happy. The best we can hope for is a compromise that'll make most folks happy, and most of the effort will be expended on coming up with a rational explanation that most will accept.

Haters, as they say, are going to hate, and the whiners will be very, very shrill; as a society, we need a way to find a reasonable and proper path forward and not to give in to the overt demands of either.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 10387
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby Caultron » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:51 pm

For sure, politics is a slow, poor, messy, expensive, and belligerent way of making decisions, but it's the best we have. Hopefully out of the fracas comes order, or at least balanced and mutual surrender.

Benevolent dictators and philosopher kings are only OK if I get to be the top guy.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:24 am

You're all wrong about the case I cited. The "facts" and results you cited are classic examples of what happens when you don't have all the facts. Let me try to summarize a fairly long and complicated story.

The couple in question had shopped at this bakery in this small town for quite awhile and had become regular customers. When one of them mentioned they were getting married soon the wife partner of the husband/wife couple OFFERED to make their cake for them. When one of them returned to place the order, the husband partner refused on religious grounds and the wife business partner went along.

When the one fiancée told the other and how brokenhearted she was, the other tried to get the bakery owners to reconsider. When they wouldn't she put their problem on social media, which as you can imagine if you know anything about Oregon, evoked a lot of support for the engaged couple. Still no movement by the bakers. The more active member asked for an APOLOGY. No dice. So seeing that the State of OR Dept. of Labor & Industries handles these issues, she requested they help her get the apology. They weren't looking for money and the last thing they wanted was public notice.

The state Secretary of Labor took a look at the situation and decided to pursue the legal steps. When the owners of the bakery proved to be unrelenting and unremorseful, the state applied the full remedies of the law. The owners of the bakery have made a full-time and reasonably remunerative occupation of being scofflaws.

The lesbian couple have gotten married and I believe another bakery prepared and donated the cake of their dreams. More than the recompense that the law requires and that they still haven't received, they would like an apology. While it's not as vocal and visible, the same-sex married couple have plenty of support amongst Oregonians and I expect nationwide.

Moonshadow's narrative on the state of civil rights and racial attitudes in the South and the success of people standing up for their rights is historically accurate.

While we're at it, the reason we enjoy the acceptance that we do isn't the result of the showmanship of Carl's outfits on the East Coast nor of how fashionable mine are on the West Coast, again I say, it is the success of the Equality movement in making the common sense point that protecting and promoting individual differences is what our country is all about. And yes, that sometimes means applying the full weight of the law on those who would twist the meaning of individual rights to allow them to act on their mindless, hurtful prejudices.

You got it right the first time Caultron, we all do things we'd prefer not to, like keeping our speeds down to something resembling the speed limit, paying our taxes, etc. because that's what's required of good citizens. Not only would most of us rather have all of our hard-earned wages for ourselves then pay taxes, each one of us can probably come up with something we feel is a waste of our tax dollars, but does that mean you support tax evasion?

In an ideal world everyone would just naturally do the right thing and when they didn't would face enough public opprobrium to get them back in line. But that's not the world we live in and in the meantime, when anyone violates my legal right to wear what I damned well please when and where I damned well pleased, I would like to know I have the full weight and power of the various levels of government that I support with my taxes behind me. That's part of what I pay my taxes for.

(Moon, maybe you should have included a paragraph or two on the history of lynching for the members of our merry band who don't get need for the laws guaranteeing our rights and their enforcement.)

And no, people such as those small town bakers do not have any right to act against my rights or anyone else's just because they feel like it, let alone because they own a business. Being a business owner shouldn't confer special rights.

Speaking of "special rights," any of you who think racism, let alone institutionalized racism is a thing of the past should take a look at the Supreme Court ruling against a recent North Carolina law. The Court said the increased restrictions on voter registration "targeted racial minorities with surgical precision." That didn't happen by coincidence.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
User avatar
Pdxfashionpioneer
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:39 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby moonshadow » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:09 am

I suppose I'll use this thread to highlight the progressive businesses, paying particular attention to the ones who are southern based and have no legal requirement to adopt an anti-discrimination policy for LGBT people.

I happened upon this one today who has a progressive employment policy and is based in Bristol/Piney Flats Tennessee:

The Robinette Company
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Appalachian Mountains (VA)

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby moonshadow » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:54 am

And Lucifer Lighting Company

Of course with a name like that... whad'ya expect.... :wink:
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Appalachian Mountains (VA)

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:52 am

Thank you Moon.

I think the Brown Shirts are getting a whole hell of a lot of undeserved publicity these days; but little of it is favorable. Furthermore, I believe our political system is sufficiently robust that I expect that the pendulum will swing back soon and HARD on the haters.

In the meantime, the flow of public opinion is proving itself to be a torrent that is flowing in the unmistakable direction of acceptance. Did some of you miss how quickly and decisively the public's take on same-sex marriage has changed? That didn't happen by a few people deciding to quietly take their business elsewhere because they didn't like being discriminated against.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
User avatar
Pdxfashionpioneer
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:39 am
Location: Portland, OR, USA

Re: Delhaize America Earns Top Marks in 2017 CEI

Postby moonshadow » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:18 am

I think when you get right down to it, the greater majority just want to be on the right side of history. I think the problem is, a good amount of those people sometimes have trouble determining what the "right side" of history is going to be. I know I struggle with it a lot.
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Appalachian Mountains (VA)

Previous

Return to In the News / Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest