boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skirts

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby Caultron » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:16 am

r.m.anderson wrote:Interestingly enough - WHAT would have happened if he wore the Kilt or is that taboo because it is not a proscribed item of the school uniform?...

That seems to be the usual outcome. Anything boys can wear, so can girls, and anything girls can wear, so can boys. So it becomes mix/match from a list of permitted garments.

But why have uniform dress codes at all? I could recite a typical list of reasons but basically, BTHOOM.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby ethelthefrog » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:05 am

The basic rationale for school uniforms is that they are a leveller. If everyone is wearing the same outfit, that does away (to a large extent) with the competition for the best clothes, which can undermine the learning of people from families with little money. In addition, the uniform makes it easy to identify pupils from each school, which is a benefit on school trips and is also a benefit in terms of public order, as the relevant school will be informed should any of the kids cause trouble in the community.

Kilts are not on the uniform list, so cannot be worn. Frankly, the skirt pictured looks pretty good...
User avatar
ethelthefrog
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby Stu » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:04 pm

We seem to have moved from a stage in the workplace where women's uniforms are either disappearing or they are being made to resemble men's, or they are given an option of a uniform which looks like the men's. Something similar has been happening in schools.

In sports, women now play football - they wear exactly the same as men. If a woman does judo, or she is a jockey, or a car mechanic etc, her clothes will relate to the position she holds or the sport or work she is doing and not be determined by her sex. For boys, however, it's different. Regardless of what options or requirements there are for females, the only options for males are trousers and (maybe) shorts.

This story is about boys donning skirts to make a protest. The chances are that, after the protest, they will take the skirts off and neveer wear one again. This is in spite of the fact that recently UK schools have started declaring their uniforms as gender neutral - to accommodate trans children. In other words, the options aren't really open for boys who are not trans or making a protest. And I note that NONE of the uniform suppliers have changed the way they market uniforms, especially skirts and dresses, as for GIRLS.

We see stories like this but we don't seem to be making much progress, gentlemen.
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: Sweden

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby renesm1 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:27 pm

Indeed. I think we shall continue to see such stories but they won't lead to much change.

That said, we can always hope otherwise!

Stu wrote:We seem to have moved from a stage in the workplace where women's uniforms are either disappearing or they are being made to resemble men's, or they are given an option of a uniform which looks like the men's. Something similar has been happening in schools.

In sports, women now play football - they wear exactly the same as men. If a woman does judo, or she is a jockey, or a car mechanic etc, her clothes will relate to the position she holds or the sport or work she is doing and not be determined by her sex. For boys, however, it's different. Regardless of what options or requirements there are for females, the only options for males are trousers and (maybe) shorts.

This story is about boys donning skirts to make a protest. The chances are that, after the protest, they will take the skirts off and neveer wear one again. This is in spite of the fact that recently UK schools have started declaring their uniforms as gender neutral - to accommodate trans children. In other words, the options aren't really open for boys who are not trans or making a protest. And I note that NONE of the uniform suppliers have changed the way they market uniforms, especially skirts and dresses, as for GIRLS.

We see stories like this but we don't seem to be making much progress, gentlemen.
Please visit http://www.absolutegadget.com for the latest gadgets and games news and reviews
renesm1
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:16 pm

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby crfriend » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:55 pm

Stu wrote:We see stories like this but we don't seem to be making much progress, gentlemen.

Donning a skirt as a form of protest, whilst admirable, won't, as Stu postulates, making skirt-wearing by guys normal.

Getting skirts accepted as normal is going to take much more finesse and an attention to more than one perceived injustice or a spell of hot weather. It's going to take random normal guys getting the idea into their heads that they can actually give it a go, that skirts really are a lot more comfortable than trousers, and really aren't all that much hassle to deal with -- unlike what they hear their wives/girlfriends whine about all the time. The difficult part for the guys who do adopt skirts is that they really need to be ambassadors in a way -- and that can be a tough line to toe. It's also going to likely involve getting away from the insipid drabness that defines men's styles now and for it to men to actually get interested in style, how it works, how to use it to their advantage, and how to wield it with skill and panache.

Yes, it'll be a long road, and it'll be the road less travelled. But, the travellers on that road will be more interesting, visually and, likely, intellectually than the ones on the heavily trodden one.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 10388
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby ethelthefrog » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:44 pm

Don't knock it. Sure this was a protest along the lines of "we'll wear skirts and get the newspaper involved to put pressure on the school to allow shorts", but the fact that the Head was entirely sanguine with the boys showing up in skirts reflects that she is fully on-board with the gender-neutral nature of the uniform rules.

If the boys wish to wear skirts to school in future, they are at liberty to do so, and that is progress. The issue of encouraging or normallising such a choice is a separate one.

For the record, my son (who is not transgender) does wear skirts and dresses to school. Not as a protest, and with no media attention whatsoever: he just prefers to dress that way. The school have been fine with it, and very supportive. He got some funny looks on day 1, but by day 2, everything had gone back to normal and it's been fine ever since.
User avatar
ethelthefrog
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby Caultron » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:51 pm

ethelthefrog wrote:...For the record, my son (who is not transgender) does wear skirts and dresses to school. Not as a protest, and with no media attention whatsoever: he just prefers to dress that way. The school have been fine with it, and very supportive. He got some funny looks on day 1, but by day 2, everything had gone back to normal and it's been fine ever since.

What got him started? Like, was it to be like dad, or did skirts just look more comfortable, or is he a non-conformist generally, or...

Do you think he would've started if you didn't?

What kind of things does he wear? Frilly? Subdued? School uniform skirts? ...?

Does he wear skirts and dresses elsewhere? Full-time?
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby STEVIE » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:20 pm

There are several points to clarify. UK only, as I have no knowledge of other legal "niceties"
Enforceable school uniform is questionable at a wholly legal level!
Employers can specify gender specific dress codes. This can be based on what is deemed "appropriate/acceptable". Health and Safety can also play a part.
Now, in my job, the rule is "no shorts", applied equally. That's fine until the weather turns a tad "humid"
My work/skirt/leg wear preferences are well documented. I don't do the bare all as I don't see it as appropriate for the office. That opinion stands, but I have reconsidered and decided to adapt.
As I see it, No shorts=bare legs= NOT ALLOWED EQUALLY APPLIED, fine!
Skirt, female, bare/ covered legs = choice= discrimination?
Today, I was bare legged and skirted at work, no comments nothing. That's fine, I like that.
However, in reality that is no challenge to the "shorts" rule, that stands for somebody else to challenge.
In the meantime, the guys could don skirts and really do it in the name of comfort.
The kids are way ahead, they just don't know it yet.
Steve.
STEVIE
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1873
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: North East Scotland.

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby renesm1 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:19 pm

I want to work where you work - have they any jobs going?

STEVIE wrote:There are several points to clarify. UK only, as I have no knowledge of other legal "niceties"
Enforceable school uniform is questionable at a wholly legal level!
Employers can specify gender specific dress codes. This can be based on what is deemed "appropriate/acceptable". Health and Safety can also play a part.
Now, in my job, the rule is "no shorts", applied equally. That's fine until the weather turns a tad "humid"
My work/skirt/leg wear preferences are well documented. I don't do the bare all as I don't see it as appropriate for the office. That opinion stands, but I have reconsidered and decided to adapt.
As I see it, No shorts=bare legs= NOT ALLOWED EQUALLY APPLIED, fine!
Skirt, female, bare/ covered legs = choice= discrimination?
Today, I was bare legged and skirted at work, no comments nothing. That's fine, I like that.
However, in reality that is no challenge to the "shorts" rule, that stands for somebody else to challenge.
In the meantime, the guys could don skirts and really do it in the name of comfort.
The kids are way ahead, they just don't know it yet.
Steve.
Please visit http://www.absolutegadget.com for the latest gadgets and games news and reviews
renesm1
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:16 pm

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby STEVIE » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:14 pm

I work for the UK Government at a very minor level.
I don't have a "face to face" job so standard "garb" is no issue.
That suits me, I can wear as I please.
For my bosses, I tick the "diversity" box, and that looks good for them, whatever.
Now, I still take "Business" dress seriously.
That means comfortable clothes across any gender or belief barriers
In other words, there should be no barriers.
Steve.
STEVIE
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1873
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: North East Scotland.

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby ethelthefrog » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:12 pm

Caultron wrote:
ethelthefrog wrote:...For the record, my son (who is not transgender) does wear skirts and dresses to school. Not as a protest, and with no media attention whatsoever: he just prefers to dress that way. The school have been fine with it, and very supportive. He got some funny looks on day 1, but by day 2, everything had gone back to normal and it's been fine ever since.

What got him started? Like, was it to be like dad, or did skirts just look more comfortable, or is he a non-conformist generally, or...

Do you think he would've started if you didn't?

What kind of things does he wear? Frilly? Subdued? School uniform skirts? ...?

Does he wear skirts and dresses elsewhere? Full-time?

Sorry for taking so long (got distracted by work and life and so on).

To be honest, he and I both caught the skirt bug at the same time. It was about when our youngest was born, so D would have been 3. He initially said "I am a girl", but he decided, at length, that he was a boy after all: he's just a gender-nonconforming boy. This academic year just gone, he wore trousers to school exactly once. The school uniform is entirely standard primary school uniform for the UK. Winter means a grey skirt or grey pinafore dress; summer means a blue & white gingham summer dress. He looks great in either. When at home, he wears skirts and dresses about 75% of the time. Today, he's in short trousers, but has paired it with a frilly top from the girls aisle. His normal wardrobe preference is very girly: he likes flowers and frills and the little details that women get on their clothes but are notably absent from the blue aisles. He is constantly misgendered, but seems completely un-bothered by this. I am quite convinced that he'd have followed this path even if I was a trousers-at-all-times guy.

For me, I had a sudden flash go off in my head (I have no idea if D was first with his revelation or I was: they were very close in time) and decided that I might be a crossdresser. That rapidly resolved to a simple desire to be a bloke in a skirt and the rest is history.

Paul
User avatar
ethelthefrog
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby Caultron » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:45 pm

ethelthefrog wrote:Sorry for taking so long (got distracted by work and life and so on).

To be honest, he and I both caught the skirt bug at the same time. It was about when our youngest was born, so D would have been 3. He initially said "I am a girl", but he decided, at length, that he was a boy after all: he's just a gender-nonconforming boy. This academic year just gone, he wore trousers to school exactly once. The school uniform is entirely standard primary school uniform for the UK. Winter means a grey skirt or grey pinafore dress; summer means a blue & white gingham summer dress. He looks great in either. When at home, he wears skirts and dresses about 75% of the time. Today, he's in short trousers, but has paired it with a frilly top from the girls aisle. His normal wardrobe preference is very girly: he likes flowers and frills and the little details that women get on their clothes but are notably absent from the blue aisles. He is constantly misgendered, but seems completely un-bothered by this. I am quite convinced that he'd have followed this path even if I was a trousers-at-all-times guy.

For me, I had a sudden flash go off in my head (I have no idea if D was first with his revelation or I was: they were very close in time) and decided that I might be a crossdresser. That rapidly resolved to a simple desire to be a bloke in a skirt and the rest is history.

So once again it's proven: Insanity is hereditary . You get it from your children.

Or perhaps that child is father to the man.

But that's great for both of you. Have fun, rock on, and be yourselves!
Last edited by Caultron on Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby Caultron » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:21 pm

If you 're married, how does your wife feel about all this?
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby skirtyscot » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:51 pm

ethelthefrog wrote:...For the record, my son (who is not transgender) does wear skirts and dresses to school. Not as a protest, and with no media attention whatsoever


I wonder how long that will last. The longer the better. And how long until the male behaviour police (a.k.a. playground bullying) press him into trousers? Is it widely known at the school (pupils, parents and teachers) that you are as enlightened as he is?

ethelthefrog wrote:To be honest, he and I both caught the skirt bug at the same time. It was about when our youngest was born, so D would have been 3. He initially said "I am a girl", but he decided, at length, that he was a boy after all: he's just a gender-nonconforming boy. ... For me, I had a sudden flash go off in my head (I have no idea if D was first with his revelation or I was: they were very close in time) and decided that I might be a crossdresser. That rapidly resolved to a simple desire to be a bloke in a skirt and the rest is history.


That is truly remarkable, that you both had essentially the same thought. Assuming you initially kept quiet about it, you could not have influenced him. And it seems most unlikely that him saying he wanted to wear skirts would trigger the same thought in your head ... most fathers seem to struggle with it / go apeshit.

ethelthefrog wrote: He is constantly misgendered, but seems completely un-bothered by thisl


Given all the support girls get these days for what ever they want to do (while boys get squeezed into that teeny little "male behaviour box"), and their ever-increasing academic lead over the boys, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see young boys starting to think that girls are better than them, and that being mistaken for a girl is no big deal or even a good thing. Your son is a leader! (As are we all.)
Keep on skirting,

Alastair
skirtyscot
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 2989
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:44 pm
Location: West Kilbride, Ayrshire, Scotland

Re: boys banned from wearing shorts, respond by wearing skir

Postby Couya » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:39 am

ethelthefrog wrote: The school uniform ... summer means a blue & white gingham summer dress.


I remember those dresses at secondary level, and remember thinking how attractive they were and how lucky the girls to have a change of uniform, while we went on wearing the same clothes all year round.
The dresses must have been a bore to look after though, to keep the looking crisp and clean!
Actually, the boys were allowed to go without jackets in summer, but I think I was the only one that wore sandals and went without socks.

I wonder if Paul and his son are a unique pair. There can't be many where the two generations decided to unbifurcate together. In fact, it is probably far more common for father and son to go in opposite directions. Congratulations !

Martin
User avatar
Couya
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:45 pm

PreviousNext

Return to In the News / Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest