Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

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Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby finrod » Thu May 12, 2016 5:09 pm

A new piece about men and skirts on Mic.com:

http://m.mic.com/articles/141814/sorry-not-sorry-but-fashion-won-t-be-truly-genderless-until-men-wear-skirts

SkirtCafe is mentioned and linked:

And while there are some signs of a shift on and off the runway — not to mention online communities of skirt-wearing men like Skirt Cafe — it will take some serious work to fight society's deep-rooted resistance to men in skirts.


Self-promotion alert: I'm quoted in it.
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Grok » Thu May 12, 2016 5:58 pm

I understand that Skirtcraft succeeded in reaching its financial goal. Considering the new-skirt-designs-for-men that failed, perhaps only the only new designs that would be financially feasible would be unisex.
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Sinned » Fri May 13, 2016 4:54 pm

I clicked on the link about Zara's ungendered lines https://mic.com/articles/141751/two-months-after-zara-announced-its-ungendered-clothing-line-this-is-where-things-are#.IE0yauN0B ( which turned out to be very drab and colourless male dominated clothing aimed at women - where have we heard that before? ) and I came across the following quotation:

"To see real progress, according to Zackary Drucker, a transgender artist and producer on the TV show Transparent, it's also not just about diversifying what ungendered clothing can be, but who can wear it. It's about thinking of a skirt not as a female clothing item, but as something anyone can wear. And to get to that point, we need to change how we think about clothing — period."

It's just what we have all been saying on the site for a long time - the skirt is not a female item - it is a garment for everyone, young and old ( how many of us here are past the half-way mark ), female and male and genders in between and we need to change our thinking, our perceptions. It's a pity that some of those closest to us cannot make that change.

Drucker herself goes on later in the article to say, "I have a uniform: I wear a button-down shirt and jeans pretty much every day (i.e., not especially coded with gender signifiers)." Where have wee see this uniform before and how often. I see it hundreds of times each day in the store I am employed in, in the high street stores and elsewhere.

Interesting article and a viewpoint that we should all agree with even the bits about the difficulties of advancing the idea of men wearing skirts. As we all know the really difficult hurdle to get over is wearing the skirt out for the first time and the next few times after that especially if you are on your own. A group would be easier but how does that group get together. Here on this site we are pretty much so divergent - from America, Europe to Austalasia. Wow, the challenge is enormous. :shock:
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Grok » Fri May 13, 2016 5:07 pm

Looked at the Zara web site. Same old/same old. The garments are the sort borrowed from our side of the aisle awhile back; though by now they could be regarded as a colorless, very dull basic-ness.
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby moonshadow » Fri May 13, 2016 9:31 pm

As I read the article, it seems that many find fault with men wearing skirts because they [skirts] are viewed as feminine garments.

So the logical thinking is that to put a skirt on more men, men need masculine skirts. Of course the kilt is the most time honored masculine skirt, later in the modern era, we enter Skirt-craft and Macabi. All are fine garments in their own right, and I'm proud and happy to have a few of each (well not the kilt *yet*) on my skirt rack at the house. However I must confess... I actually enjoy wearing feminine skirts and tops. Not because I want to transition or anything, but just because I think they are fun and represent my inner soul.

So I guess what I'm saying is, if ever a day where mens skirts become a thing, and women do, like women often do, and imitate men to appear as "more masculine", I hope that there will always be a market for the flowy, lacey, feminine skirts that I love to wear so much.

You see to me, mens trousers aren't just a uniform, but a state of mind. It signals that when I wear these trousers, I'm to "act like a man". When I wear something of the more feminine variety, it too is not just a skirt, but rather a state of mind. I feel as though I can freely express this other side of me. Nobody is looking at me funny for remarking on a "pretty" flower, a giggle, cry during a sappy movie, etc. I rather enjoy being a man of balance, free to express what ever side of me I want. My clothes help me achieve this.

So to put it another way... when the market finally embraces mens skirts, they are sure to be dull and drab just like mens trousers. Then women will fall right in line and start buying them up, and before you know it, a floral dress or tiered lacey skirt will be as rare as a mens skirt today! -- I hope I'm wrong.

Remember:It's not just clothes, but a state of mind. Don't just free your crotch... free your soul too!
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Grok » Sat May 14, 2016 8:23 am

moonshadow wrote:

So to put it another way... when the market finally embraces mens skirts, they are sure to be dull and drab just like mens trousers. Then women will fall right in line and start buying them up, and before you know it, a floral dress or tiered lacey skirt will be as rare as a mens skirt today! -- I hope I'm wrong.
]

Unless....skirts don't catch on as mainstream menswear. The typical male may choose to conform to convention, and continue wearing the boring same old/same old.
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby moonshadow » Sat May 14, 2016 1:35 pm

Grok wrote:
moonshadow wrote:

So to put it another way... when the market finally embraces mens skirts, they are sure to be dull and drab just like mens trousers. Then women will fall right in line and start buying them up, and before you know it, a floral dress or tiered lacey skirt will be as rare as a mens skirt today! -- I hope I'm wrong.
]

Unless....skirts don't catch on as mainstream menswear. The typical male may choose to conform to convention, and continue wearing the boring same old/same old.


Either-or. As long as we maintain the ability to choose. If a man is willing to wear a skirt, but it has to be a "manly" one, that's his prerogative. I tend to like the skirts of the more feminine variety, and I just hope there will still be a few of those around in the even such a day shall come.

One nice thing about skirts in the modern era is, the overall design of a skirt is for all intents and purposes, unisex. It's just a cone, or a tube. It will attach itself to anything that is roundish. Nobody has a square or triangular waist so really men can already choose from anything. It's not like "womens" trousers which can be ill fitting on some guys, or "womens" tops which also may not compliment our body style. I know I wear some "womens" tops and blouses, but I have a frame where many of them fit and work. I see many men who have a more "masculine" frame where a "womens" blouse may not work so well. "Womens" skirts will fit anyone generally speaking. Personally I believe the "market" is fine just the way it is. For those men who want a skirt that's not feminine, there is the kilt, Skirt-craft, Macabi, etc. Not to mention, there are some off the shelf "womens" skirts that frankly look very conservative and could pass as a "mans" skirt. I've got some denim ones that fit the bill. The only thing feminine about them is the "dreaded" "WOMENS" tag in the back. And as you all know by now... that don't befront me!
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Judah14 » Sat May 14, 2016 3:38 pm

moonshadow wrote:For those men who want a skirt that's not feminine, there is the kilt, Skirt-craft, Macabi, etc. Not to mention, there are some off the shelf "womens" skirts that frankly look very conservative and could pass as a "mans" skirt. I've got some denim ones that fit the bill. The only thing feminine about them is the "dreaded" "WOMENS" tag in the back. And as you all know by now... that don't befront me!

How about traditional garments (tube and wrap style) from Asian countries which are worn by both men and women?
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Grok » Sat May 14, 2016 5:05 pm

There is an "Alternate Universes" thread which discusses subcultures that include skirted men. Perhaps that is the context in which we will see Men in Skirts; slivers of the male population who are members of a handful of subcultures. And each subculture will likely have its preferred garment(s).

Meanwhile, the majority of men stay stuck in "trousers tyranny". Which I won't mind, so long as the majority extends tolerance towards Men in Skirts.
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Couya » Sun May 15, 2016 8:50 am

Grok wrote:... slivers of the male population who are members of a handful of subcultures. And each subculture will likely have its preferred garment(s).


Which is the case of kilt-wearers today. They are either highland dancers or caber tossers. Very exclusive clubs.

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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Kirbstone » Sun May 15, 2016 11:30 am

How about pipe bandsmen, lone pipers and Scottish rugby fans?, also certain Scottish regimental uniforms.

I remember in the film 'Tunes of Glory', Alec Guinness, who played the officer who struck a sergeant, when facing the court martial dressed formally in his regimental kilt uniform.

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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Grok » Sun May 15, 2016 5:56 pm

Contra dance micro-culture.


http://qccd.org/skirts.html
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Grok » Sun May 15, 2016 6:17 pm

Judah14 wrote:
moonshadow wrote:For those men who want a skirt that's not feminine, there is the kilt, Skirt-craft, Macabi, etc. Not to mention, there are some off the shelf "womens" skirts that frankly look very conservative and could pass as a "mans" skirt. I've got some denim ones that fit the bill. The only thing feminine about them is the "dreaded" "WOMENS" tag in the back. And as you all know by now... that don't befront me!

How about traditional garments (tube and wrap style) from Asian countries which are worn by both men and women?

Do you mean sarongs? It occurred to me that you improvise with a rectangle of cloth. That is the sort of thing you can buy in different fabrics and colors.
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Grok » Sun May 15, 2016 7:17 pm

moonshadow wrote:
So I guess what I'm saying is, if ever a day where mens skirts become a thing, and women do, like women often do, and imitate men to appear as "more masculine", I hope that there will always be a market for the flowy, lacey, feminine skirts that I love to wear so much.

So to put it another way... when the market finally embraces mens skirts, they are sure to be dull and drab just like mens trousers. Then women will fall right in line and start buying them up, and before you know it, a floral dress or tiered lacey skirt will be as rare as a mens skirt today! -- I hope I'm wrong.

Unless the design was originally intended for women (such as the Macabi skirt), and later adopted by men.

A women imitating the style of skirted-male-Contra-dancers would be imitating skirts that were originally intended for women.

Which, I suppose, could be called Recursive Skirting.
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Re: Mic.com: Sorry Not Sorry, but Fashion Won't Be Truly ...

Postby Sinned » Mon May 16, 2016 9:36 am

Moon, you know what the answer is to the dreaded woman's label - just trim it out, or better still if you can do it trim the WO from the WOMAN word on the label. Hey, snip, snip, voila, it's not a woman's anymore - problem solved. :D
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