Vulnerability in Males

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
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crfriend
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by crfriend »

Jim wrote:Look at the speaker's web site, http://opendeepandtrue.com/, and tell me what parts of it express the kind of "feminism" that you object to.
Well, that's interesting. The speaker is an ex-US Marine (whose hands, by law, must be registered as deadly weapons) wants to teach "vulnerability"? Something is amiss here.

I'm all for increasing the notion of sensitivity in guys; altogether too many seem to utterly lack that. But I'm not one that would endorse "vulnerability" except in the confines of intimate relationships -- and even then it can go horribly wrong.

So, without hearing the man's thesis, I stand down on my assertion of radical feminism. Sadly, there's not enough "meat" on the guy's web-site ("Where's the beef?") to draw a bead on anything.
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by Stu »

Jim wrote: I still disagree with destroying the inclusiveness of words like "man", but they and I agree with having a more equal society without being subject to sexual stereotypes.

Look at the speaker's web site, http://opendeepandtrue.com/, and tell me what parts of it express the kind of "feminism" that you object to.
Jim - feminism is nothing to do with equality. It hasn't been concerned with equality for years (if it ever has been, which is debateable). Most prominent feminists have stopped pretending that is in interested in equality. Do you seriously think that people like Jessica Valenti, Germaine Greer, Julie Bindel, Gloria Steinem, Susan Brownmiller etc are striving for equality? What rights do you enjoy that your wife is denied?

Modern feminism has been "stolen" by the radical bunch and many former feminists have distanced themselves from it altogether, either by declaring themselves as "equity feminists" (and these are now focusing on male inequality and have been castigated by the mainstream) or by rejecting it altogether (like Janice Fiamengo).

Put simply, modern, mainstream feminism is misandric, malevolent, barking mad - and vile.
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

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Stu wrote:What rights do you enjoy that your wife is denied?
Modern feminism has been "stolen" by the radical bunch and many former feminists have distanced themselves from it altogether, either by declaring themselves as "equity feminists" (and these are now focusing on male inequality and have been castigated by the mainstream) or by rejecting it altogether (like Janice Fiamengo).
Put simply, modern, mainstream feminism is misandric, malevolent, barking mad - and vile.
I agree that the modern feminazi only wants to take away the rights of a man to do what he wants not just in the board room but everywhere. Replacing it with control on how the man can think. If thats what you want more power to you, me I do not want others to be able to tell me I must bow down and kiss the feet of these kinds of people (whom I consider less than human).

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Re: Vulnerability in Males

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Stu wrote:Put simply, modern, mainstream feminism is misandric, malevolent, barking mad - and vile.
Also insidious, spreading itself within mainstream politics and the justice system, which in turn results in discriminatory and biased decisions. Examples of which include the attitudes displayed towards victims based upon their gender and, indeed, the punishments for the perpetrators. If you think this can't be the case, I cite two UK based cases which bear some similarities:

A footballer (soccer) aged 28 was accused and convicted of "grooming" and sexual activity with a 15 year old girl. He was sentenced to 6 years and immediately incarcerated. The "chattering masses" were enraged that he used his position of trust to perpetrate the crime; frankly I see a position of "celebrity" over "trust".

A woman aged 30 was accused and convicted of sexual activity with a 15 year old boy. She was sentenced to 2 years - suspended. To the masses, at first blush, this seems a lesser matter because the victim was male and the perpetrator female. Closer examination revealed she was a classroom assistant (assistant teacher), yet fewer people questioned her position of trust - she is not a celebrity. On appeal, the sentence was altered; she was eventually incarcerated.

Granted, one difference that affects sentencing is that she pleaded guilty whereas he pleaded not guilty, but her "affair" was a protracted abuse with evidenced grooming on Facebook.

Why the differences? I could hypothesise ad infinitum, but it seems to me that the biggest factor is the feminist lobby forwarding the notion that men are the root of all evil, women are sweetness and light! I know it isn't this simplistic.....
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Disaffected.citizen wrote:
Stu wrote:Put simply, modern, mainstream feminism is misandric, malevolent, barking mad - and vile.


Also insidious, spreading itself within mainstream politics and the justice system, which in turn results in discriminatory and biased decisions. Examples of which include the attitudes displayed towards victims based upon their gender and, indeed, the punishments for the perpetrators. If you think this can't be the case, I cite two UK based cases which bear some similarities:

A footballer (soccer) aged 28 was accused and convicted of "grooming" and sexual activity with a 15 year old girl. He was sentenced to 6 years and immediately incarcerated. The "chattering masses" were enraged that he used his position of trust to perpetrate the crime; frankly I see a position of "celebrity" over "trust".

A woman aged 30 was accused and convicted of sexual activity with a 15 year old boy. She was sentenced to 2 years - suspended. To the masses, at first blush, this seems a lesser matter because the victim was male and the perpetrator female. Closer examination revealed she was a classroom assistant (assistant teacher), yet fewer people questioned her position of trust - she is not a celebrity. On appeal, the sentence was altered; she was eventually incarcerated.

Granted, one difference that affects sentencing is that she pleaded guilty whereas he pleaded not guilty, but her "affair" was a protracted abuse with evidenced grooming on Facebook.

Why the differences? I could hypothesise ad infinitum, but it seems to me that the biggest factor is the feminist lobby forwarding the notion that men are the root of all evil, women are sweetness and light! I know it isn't this simplistic.....


With this kind of "Justice" I am surprised that the 15 year old boy was not charged with soliciting and the teacher let completely off the hook.

Fred :kiltdance:
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
Always be yourself because the people that matter don’t mind and the ones that mind don’t matter.
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

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I dough that society will ever allow men to wear a skirt, I think that society wants to know what
sex you are with out having a physical exam.
Now I can hope for a change; after all, back in the 16 TH Century, everyone wore a dress in a way.
I can still hope, but it better happen soon, after all I am 69 years old.
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by Jim »

Stu wrote:What rights do you enjoy that your wife is denied?
I can wear a skirt with much less hassle than my wife can be out and about bare chested. In hot weather I am bare chested much of the time.
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by Stu »

Jim wrote: I can wear a skirt with much less hassle than my wife can be out and about bare chested. In hot weather I am bare chested much of the time.
1. Is there a skirts for women board like this? Or a trousers for women board? Is this even an issue for women? No. In terms of clothing, shoes, jewellery, cosmetics and so on, women have vastly more choice than men. And boys have it even worse!

2. It is not men who are seeking to deny women the right to walk around bare-chested: if there was a consensus by women that they wanted to be able to do this, then nobody would be stopping them. But there is no consensus - rather, it is the conventions of decency as understood by both men and women. Indeed, it is often women who would be most outraged at seeing another woman bare chested. Feminists are trying to have it both ways: we have the various spectacles of them protesting bare chested on the one hand, yet seeking to ban bare breasts if they think they may be exposed in circumstances that men enjoy.

Do you want me to list the rights and advantages women now enjoy in our society that men do not? How long have you got?
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by Jim »

Stu wrote:
Jim wrote: I can wear a skirt with much less hassle than my wife can be out and about bare chested. In hot weather I am bare chested much of the time.
1. Is there a skirts for women board like this? Or a trousers for women board? Is this even an issue for women? No. In terms of clothing, shoes, jewellery, cosmetics and so on, women have vastly more choice than men. And boys have it even worse!
As you can tell from reading this board, men can and do make the choices to wear these things.
Stu wrote: 2. It is not men who are seeking to deny women the right to walk around bare-chested: if there was a consensus by women that they wanted to be able to do this, then nobody would be stopping them. But there is no consensus - rather, it is the conventions of decency as understood by both men and women. Indeed, it is often women who would be most outraged at seeing another woman bare chested. Feminists are trying to have it both ways: we have the various spectacles of them protesting bare chested on the one hand, yet seeking to ban bare breasts if they think they may be exposed in circumstances that men enjoy.
The "Free the Nipple" movement is a feminist movement.
Stu wrote: Do you want me to list the rights and advantages women now enjoy in our society that men do not? How long have you got?
Yes, sexism hurts both men and women. If you look at wages and rates of sexual assault, men mostly have the advantage. In domestic disputes women often have the advantage. But if we are just looking at clothing, I believe women are more oppressed, but sexism does hurt everyone.

Instead of trying to convince each other who has it worst, let's just agree to work against sexual discrimination of all sorts. If you don't like the word feminism for that concept, use equalism or gender equality.
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by Stu »

"As you can tell from reading this board, men can and do make the choices to wear these things. "
But that's why this board exists, Jim - because they don't and often they can't. If men had the same choices as women, there would be no point in this forum. Yes, a few brave souls come here and talk about it - but we are very much the exception. If you have a job where a suit is required, try your luck wearing a skirt suit. And you can bet that women will have the option of skirts, trousers or dresses - and in a far wider range of colours!
"The "Free the Nipple" movement is a feminist movement."
Indeed. And so is the "Ban Page 3" movement, which seeks to prohibit the exposure of breasts - but only if they are exposed for the pleasure of men. Funny how it has nothing to say on the exposure of men's chests (with great abs, naturally) in women's magazines, TV commercials and so forth. They are hypocrites.
"Yes, sexism hurts both men and women."
I think feminism hurts both men and women far more.
"If you look at wages and rates of sexual assault, men mostly have the advantage."
1. The "pay gap" is a complete myth. It has been busted countless times and now even some feminists are admitting it's a myth: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina ... 73804.html

2. There are more female sexual assault victims than male victims, but the difference isn't very wide. A recent survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... ulted.html. However, why trestrict it to sexual assault? Men are vastly more likely to be the victims of non-sexual violence, including murder, than women.
"If you don't like the word feminism for that concept, use equalism or gender equality."
It's not the word that's the problem, Jim - it is the movement itself. Any movement is defined by the words and deeds of its leading figures, and feminism has really become a misandric movement which has no interest in equality. I used to think as you do, but then I was tasked with teaching aspects of feminist theory and so I researched it - and I was horrified at what I discovered. It is essentially a cult, It is intolerant, hateful and deeply misandric.

If you get a moment, watch former radical feminist Prof. Janice Fiamengo explain what modern feminism is really about and why she now calls herself an "antifeminist". It may interest you to know that the antifeminist movement is growing fast and most of its leading exponents aren't old male chauvinist guys: they are young (or middle-aged), highly educated women, like Karen Straughan - and Janice herself.
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by Disaffected.citizen »

Jim wrote:Yes, sexism hurts both men and women. If you look at wages and rates of sexual assault, men mostly have the advantage. In domestic disputes women often have the advantage. But if we are just looking at clothing, I believe women are more oppressed, but sexism does hurt everyone.
Sorry, but the wages argument is flawed, certainly in UK. The difference arises because of a few highly paid individuals. At "shop floor" level the same rates apply. The feminist lobby agenda is set to skew statistics.

Also, insofar as domestic violence, abuse and sexual assault are concerned, the reporting and recording methodology is also flawed; men are often denigrated and ridiculed by police and others, so remain reticent to break silence. This plays into the feminist lobby that promotes the notion that females are disproportionately more often the victim and males the perpetrators.

All of which might provide one explanation for the disproportionate rate of male suicide. We suffer mostly in silence.
Instead of trying to convince each other who has it worst, let's just agree to work against sexual discrimination of all sorts. If you don't like the word feminism for that concept, use equalism or gender equality.
Agreed

EDIT
Sorry, I missed Stu's response.

Also, Erin Pizzey, founder of the first women's refuge in UK, is discussing support for male survivors and the fact that feminists mostly avoid the topic of female on male abuse.
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by dillon »

I'd say that unless you go listen, all this conjecture as to what is meant by "vulnerability" is only the ranting of people who don't yet know **** from Shinola. At the point that we stop listening, we stop talking to each other, and you don't have to look hard to see where that's gotten us...
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: Vulnerability in Males

Post by wsherman »

Good day everyone!
May I suggest that the church be contacted and an inquiry made as to whether an audio file or tape is available?
This would remove all Mistry as to the point of the speakers address.
And I take care!
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