skirtcafe.org

While this is from a long time back, it was just published on youtube by his son.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXsXNrnBagM

Very interesting watching this. All the same arguments would be used today 33 years later.

LGG wrote: All the same arguments would be used today 33 years later.

Yes, but I'm sure young women today would not want to appear as narrow-minded and conservative as those young women did. Those girls seem to me quite unable to question their own roles as pretty decorations in a man's world. Were young women really so staid in 1982? This sounded to me more like 1962.

Martin
PS : Is/was this David Hall well-known?

I have to agree that the same arguments that were being passed around then are still being made today but it is to be hoped that those for wearing skirts are being listened to for they are indeed valid. I believe though that the kilt as a casual wear item is being largely accepted now and skirts for men as a wardrobe choice is slowly coming around too.

I wish someone there would have answered Donahues' quip about Pattons' Third Army with a loud "What about the Scots in WWI?". I believe it was the Argyll & Sutherland that earned the moniker from the Germans "The Ladies from Hell" and were respected for their audacity in battle.

BTW weren't the some of the commercial spots interesting?

I salute the pioneers that went before as we'd find the way harder now if it wasn't for them.

Slainte'
Bill & Sir Brinkley the Exubrant!

I didnt watch the whole episode due to battery life on the Kindle, but I just wonder if an audience today would be as civil and respectful as that one was? I fear that someone doing that today would be greeted with the rudeness and dismissiveness of the Jerry Springer/Rush Limbaugh era...

Couya wrote:Yes, but I'm sure young women today would not want to appear as narrow-minded and conservative as those young women did. Those girls seem to me quite unable to question their own roles as pretty decorations in a man's world. Were young women really so staid in 1982? This sounded to me more like 1962.

One must remember the time -- and, yes, this was 1982 not 1962. This was two years into the realm of Ronnie Reagan and neo-conservatism (the poor Brits wound up with Margaret Thatcher) was running rampant, and the last vestiges of the progress made during the '60s and '70s were being ploughed back into the ground from which they originally sprouted. It was a rather toxic period of time, and Phil Donahue's guests largely reflected that.

Yes, many of the same arguments might be applied today, but for the most part would likely be laughed at given how dumbed-down both male and female apparel have gotten in the intervening 30 years. Even the context of some of the comments no longer exists.

It's true that nobody expects to see a bloke in a skirt. That's precisely why I hold it so important that said bloke present such a commanding presence that disapproval, much less ridicule, is simply not possible because the person offering same would look like an imbecile. If you're going to wear a skirt, be ready to rule the room if need be; folks respect that. This does not mean behaving like an arrogant prick, either; it means being so genuinely yourself that objections simply won't float.

In the short segment of the Donahue clip I saw before my wife killed the connection, it seemed like the guys were almost apologizing for their choice. Apologies should not be necessary.

We've had a new guy start where I work just yesterday -- another person who has never seen me in trousers but yet we get along just fine. Life is good.

I actually recall there being quite a bit of liberalism in spirit in the early Reagan years. It was not until the latter years of Reagan and Bush1 that it became fashionable to mix wealth and religon under the elective ignorance of the New Right and the first Gulf War. But the extreme right didn't get rolling until they discovered Clinton-bashing, and took it to its illogical and ugliest extreme during the current Obama epoch. Of course liberalism was differently focused at that era, as we dealt with the waning of the Cold War, the rise of terrorism, and the AIDS issue. Gender issues were barely on the radar screen.

dillon wrote:I actually recall there being quite a bit of liberalism in spirit in the early Reagan years.

If there was, it didn't manifest much in New England. Styles went from lush and playful to business suits in the span of less than a year; AIDS replaced herpes as the mark of the impure (and the general attitude was very much one of, "Those who get it deserve it."); the social safety-net began to unravel; and "deregulation" of the sort that has brought about today's world began in earnest.

In short, it was the "soft" things that fell first, and without softness, bad things happen in the world.

Say does anyone know if mr. Hall is still with us and how his life has gone?

Is his son a supporter of the "Men in Skirt Movement?
I think by placing the show on You Tube he has made a wonderful tribute to his parents.

Slainte'
Bill & Sir Brinkley the Exubrant!

wsherman wrote:Say does anyone know if mr. Hall is still with us and how his life has gone?

There was a postal address listed at the end of the video stating New Hampshire, so maybe that's new. I don't know.

Is his son a supporter of the "Men in Skirt Movement?
I think by placing the show on You Tube he has made a wonderful tribute to his parents.

Without more to go on, it's a hard call to make.

I need to review some other stuff I hopefully have around here. Somehow, the name "Hall" is familiar...

Very interesting program, and quite an artifact of its time in some respects, but not others. As an aside, the commercials were interesting in that almost all the women were realistic suburban matrons, not the highly made up, young, perfect models that are ubiquitous now (I very rarely watch any television, but that was my impression). Pity they didn't show any any shorter skirts, especially denim, as I think these are counter intuitively less of a visual change for many people as they are just a subtle change from shorts of the same length. Interestingly it was some younger women who were the most conservative and uncomfortable with men in skirts, but they were unable to say why, other than social convention. More of the older women were accepting. Another observation is that while no one seemed to object to kilts (which are a type of pleated skirt), many couldn't make the conceptual leap to accept other types of skirts on men. I doubt if women, while viewing their skirt collection, make a major division in their mind between pleated and non pleated skirts.

When researching David Hall, I came across this old but still relevant Guardian article:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... 26/fashion

I stumbled onto this thread after a chance discovery of David Hall through a different YouTuber. (I googled the name and this thread came up)

Quite a show. That male caller towards the end of the show (part two) seemed downright offended at the very notion of these men wearing skirts.

I was blown away by the story the William told regarding being kicked off the California school grounds for simply wearing a skirt. I feel we simply must acknowledge that progress that has been made in the last 40 years in this regard. I don't think a father would be forbidden from any public school system anywhere in the 50 states simply for wearing a skirt today. Certainly not in California, but not even in Mississippi.

You could literally see the women struggle to wrap their mind around what they were witnessing, and when Phil Donahue attempted over and over again to explain the double standard... they just didn't get it at all, as though it all went right over their heads.

Both the men gave excellent arguments and I commend their patience as both were clearly before their time. I personally would have been on the extreme defensive with the exchange.

I'd say it took some real guts, courage, and a ton of self confidence to wear those garments 40 years ago. I bet the laughter and heckling they received rivals anything I've ever had to endure.

A few of those women could have almost directly quoted my mother regarding her opposition. It took me almost six years to move that mountain, but I believe I finally did. And dad? He could have easily been that angry male caller on the second part. In fact, around the time this was filmed, he was already pressuring me (a toddler at the time) out of that "sissy gown" I liked to wear all the time.

Fast forward 38 years and you'll find me wearing a black Macabi midi in his presence without a word said...

David Hall, William Campell...

Thanks for all you've done.

BTW: My take on William was "a man after Carl's heart". I swear they must be kindred spirits.

I've seen the whole video, and I'm not at all surprised at the answers that were given in the audience. Today it wouldn't be much different I guess.

Rokje wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:29 am I've seen the whole video, and I'm not at all surprised at the answers that were given in the audience. Today it wouldn't be much different I guess.

There are probably a few more women these days that'd date a guy in a skirt then there were back in '82, but it would still present some challenges.

A funny bit of irony that struck me was when that one women looked at David square in the face and said "I wouldn't hire you"...

Funny... my understanding is back in those days it was very uncommon for a woman to be in a position of "hiring" someone to begin with thanks in no small part to unfair gender roles.

I suppose if David wanted to be real catty he could have replied "you couldn't hire me anyway thanks to the patriarchal system you're supporting!"

I do think things have improved in the last 40 years. We're not quite where we need to be today, but progress has been made, I don't see how anyone could deny that.