'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby owen » Fri May 16, 2014 9:51 pm

Another article about it on RT:
http://rt.com/news/159380-boys-skirts-france-protest/

Seems to have created quite a bit of controversy.
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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby crfriend » Fri May 16, 2014 10:43 pm

owen wrote:Another article about it on RT:
http://rt.com/news/159380-boys-skirts-france-protest/

Seems to have created quite a bit of controversy.

So, one "conservative" (new-school usage there, beware) pressure group gets things completely out of context and makes a hullabaloo out of it. They're merely showing their own ignorance -- in spades.

Clothing does not define who, or what, we are. It can be used as an outward expression of our own tastes, but it can also simply be a fashion statement. Yet even in a roomful of highly-educated people at my elder aunt's 70th birthday party last year I continually got peppered with questions to the effect of, "Are you transitioning?" -- to which the answer was an unequivocal "NO." I finally shut most of them up by suffixing the "NO" with, "It's a fashion statement. There is NO SUBTEXT." Sometimes it's amazing how dense folks can be.

So, in relation to that flap in France, I have to ask this question: "What connects a protest to forward equality of the sexes to the concept of 'gay marriage'?" Actually, I don't, because the answer is, "Nothing!" On the concept of "equality" we need look no further than the boardroom at one of the United States' biggest newspapers who just sacked a woman who had the courage to point up the (still!) unequal pay between men and women. Kudos to her for her courage and shame on her boss and the company for their actions. Is demanding equality of pay also promoting homosexuality? I rather think not.

Fair play is fair play. Let's level the damned playing field once and for all. Standing shoulder-to-shoulder with our sisters should be something that we (and especially this lot) should be proud to do. Equality, recall, is transitive; if something is OK for one but not for another equality does not exist. Full stop.
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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby Tor » Sat May 17, 2014 1:04 am

crfriend wrote: Equality, recall, is transitive; if something is OK for one but not for another equality does not exist. Full stop.


What? You mean that some aren't more equal than others? :twisted:

Clothing does not define who, or what, we are. It can be used as an outward expression of our own tastes, but it can also simply be a fashion statement.


Aye to that. I can vagely recall wondering about wearing girls clothes in my younger days, but the first I can recall actually /wanting/ to coincides with the first time I recall seeing a boy wear girls clothes (in that case, an accurate description to the best of my knowledge). I once stood on the edge of the crossdressing world, but soon turned away. Now I have no desire to go back even to there, much less beyond. There is even great company here to boot.
human@world# ask_question --recursive "By what legitimate authority?"
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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby pleated » Mon May 19, 2014 12:10 am

More related articles-
http://www.thelocal.fr/20140516/in-pict ... s-to-class
Schoolboys defy critics and wear skirts to class
Published: 16 May 2014

http://www.connexionfrance.com/france-b ... ticle.html
Schoolboys invited to put on a skirt
May 15, 2014

That article also has a link to 2012 article-
http://www.connexionfrance.com/news_art ... hp?id=4157
Men demand right to wear skirts
October 10, 2012
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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby melsav » Mon May 19, 2014 5:01 am

Maybe the boys will realise how comfortable a skirt is and wear them more often. :D
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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby ethelthefrog » Fri May 23, 2014 12:04 pm

crfriend wrote:Fair play is fair play. Let's level the damned playing field once and for all. Standing shoulder-to-shoulder with our sisters should be something that we (and especially this lot) should be proud to do. Equality, recall, is transitive; if something is OK for one but not for another equality does not exist. Full stop.

What you're aiming at there, Carl, is intersectionality, the concept that all inequality harms society, and that single-interest groups such as our own fighting with each other does more harm than good and that nobody should rest until all inequality is overcome.

An oft-cited objection to equality is based on the flawed assumption that equality implies uniformity. All men can wear skirts does not imply that all men must wear skirts.
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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby crfriend » Fri May 23, 2014 4:28 pm

ethelthefrog wrote:An oft-cited objection to equality is based on the flawed assumption that equality implies uniformity. All men can wear skirts does not imply that all men must wear skirts.

Quite the opposite really, Equality opens up the horizons such that uniformity is (hopefully) less likely than it is in a completely Balkanised world.

I definitely agree with the second assertion there for that would be just as bad as the way things are now in which the unspoken dictum is that men must wear trousers.
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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby Grok » Fri May 23, 2014 5:36 pm

melsav wrote:Maybe the boys will realise how comfortable a skirt is and wear them more often. :D


A few of those boys may be natural born Skirtonians.
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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby pleated » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:27 pm

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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby tartansmith » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:16 am

couyalair wrote:By the way, "lift the skirt" is an unfortunate translation of "soulever", the verb used to mean raise a question in a debate.
The implication in the title of a book published a few years ago, "Ce que soulève la jupe"' is "the problems that skirts raise."
M


I was thinking that to. It's actually quite a sloppy translation, as on its own that phrase has very specific connotations!
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Re: 'Lift the skirt’ campaign urges French schoolboys to ...

Postby skirtilator » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:28 pm

crfriend wrote:
So, one "conservative" (new-school usage there, beware) pressure group gets things completely out of context and makes a hullabaloo out of it. They're merely showing their own ignorance -- in spades.


Do you mean those funny guys with the most hilarious remarks? :lol: Oh, he has no pants, so he wears a skirt. :lol: By that logic, a cyclist doesn't own a car. ;) Versatility requires more often than not a compromise in terms of aesthetics, therefore it is inavitable that you receive a moronic 3rd party comment behind your back if ye wear the Macabi in short configuration. :mrgreen:

crfriend wrote:Clothing does not define who, or what, we are. It can be used as an outward expression of our own tastes, but it can also simply be a fashion statement. Yet even in a roomful of highly-educated people at my elder aunt's 70th birthday party last year I continually got peppered with questions to the effect of, "Are you transitioning?" -- to which the answer was an unequivocal "NO." I finally shut most of them up by suffixing the "NO" with, "It's a fashion statement. There is NO SUBTEXT." Sometimes it's amazing how dense folks can be.
People make clothing, not the other way arround. :)

crfriend wrote:So, in relation to that flap in France, I have to ask this question: "What connects a protest to forward equality of the sexes to the concept of 'gay marriage'?" Actually, I don't, because the answer is, "Nothing!" On the concept of "equality" we need look no further than the boardroom at one of the United States' biggest newspapers who just sacked a woman who had the courage to point up the (still!) unequal pay between men and women. Kudos to her for her courage and shame on her boss and the company for their actions. Is demanding equality of pay also promoting homosexuality? I rather think not.
No bro, no, don't mistake "get payed" for "have earned," da pay gap has been debunkend countless times. E. g. men have no uterus, men work more overtime, men get compensated for more dangerous and physically demanding jobs ... in general.

crfriend wrote:Fair play is fair play. Let's level the damned playing field once and for all. Standing shoulder-to-shoulder with our sisters should be something that we (and especially this lot) should be proud to do. Equality, recall, is transitive; if something is OK for one but not for another equality does not exist. Full stop.


Ach, It is not a matter of proportion but a moral one. I am sick of sexist bigots and hypocrites. :cry: A chick who claims that skirts were "women's cloth" and wears trousers should either wear traditional "women's cloth" only or abolish those categories alltogether to be consistent. Otherwise she is a sexist, because she applies dat principle only to men, a bigot, because it is subjective opinion and a hypocrite because of double standard. :evil: In conclusion: Even if she would apply these principle consistantly, that would make her a bigot, due to the subjective nature of the claim. :!:

You don't own peoples' thoughts and emotions. The tendency is, those who laugh ain't open minded and curious and those who are open minded and curious don't laugh. The ignorants are in between.
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