What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
Stu
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by Stu »

Don't let the price of beer put you off - it all depends where you buy it. You go to a pub for a drink, maybe two. If you want a "session", you buy the beer from the supermarket or our special off licences (Systembolaget) and drink at home, or at a friend's house.

Gothenburg has a bit of a reputation for being homophobic (I'm not suggesting you are gay, BTW) and that might have something to do with it. Stockholm is your best bet.

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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by skirtyscot »

There was a "Gay Lesbian Transgender Queer Festival" on the weekend I was there. That must have balanced things out a bit!
Keep on skirting,

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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by crfriend »

Stu wrote:I have students who work or have worked in childrenswear shops and they will tell you that it is by no means unusual for a boy to point to a dress or skirt and say they want it, and for their mother to let them try it on and to buy it for them. [...] Many younger children's clothes shops here simply sell children's clothes - no boys' section and girls' section: just kids' clothes.
That is a wonderful bit of news from one culture to another, and I thank you for it! Over on "these here shores" once an infant is out of "onesies" the dichotomy betwixt boys' and girls' clothing is absolute and unyielding.
If this can eventually extend to the older children's section, then that will be yet another crack in the metaphorical edifice. Team that up with a wider availability of men's kilts, sarongs, walking skirts and so on, and the edifice will eventually collapse, meaning that skirts will be as natural a garment in the men's section of any store as it is in the women's section.
Hear, hear!
Then there will be little point in having a "skirtcafe".
Having goals and bounds, I think is healthy. In this case, if it means that SkirtCafe someday becomes irrelevant, I am completely fine with it because it will mean that the aim and goal has been met. Somehow I suspect the occasional friendship fostered here will survive, and I hope that'll be the other legacy.

SkirtyScot summed it up well, it is the aim to become "obsolete" -- but only on the terms of what we've done. If it comes about by way of apathy then we've failled abjectly.
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pleated
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by pleated »

Here, from a woman whose blog was quoted in the article, is a link to her reaction. She says that "Ms. Padawer did a fantastic job on the article"
http://pinkisforboys.wordpress.com/2012 ... s-nothing/
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by Steve43023 »

Although this forum is about skirts and this thread is about the NY Times article, it's interesting that similar forums that focus on other apparel share the same concerns and trepidations expressed here, and comments elsewhere about the article are mostly quite positive. For guys into high heels and women's shoes in High Heel Place ( http://www.hhplace.org ), there are many similarities, because wearing high heels is mostly a fashion choice (most people don't think there are any benefits other than fashion and appearance). For guys into hosiery (stockings, pantyhose, tights, and other legwear), Legwear as Unisex Fashion ( http://forums. delphiforums.com/legwearuf ) is for them. Hosiery is different because there are a lot more benefits. Many men (perhaps most) who wear hosiery do so for the benefits (compression, circulation, reducing fatigue, improving stamina, preventing blisters and chafing, providing a barrier to insects, comfort, etc.) whereas women who wear hosiery do so mostly because of fashion, appearance, and social conditioning. Whether it's skirts, hose or heels, it all boils down to:

1. Society has created the notion of two and only two distinct genders, male and female. There is no room in between; no spectrum exists.
2. Society has created the notion that males are more valuable than females; a girl/woman aspiring to be/appear male is honorable and acceptable whereas a boy/man aspiring to be/appear female is dishonorable and unacceptable.
3. The religious right is generally intolerant.

Steve
(In the interest of full disclosure, I'm co-owner of www.glieberman.com, purveyor of Activskin legwear and Comfilon loungewear. Our goal is to provide men with choices in fabrics and styles of undergarments and indoor wear that are traditionally, at least in recent times, reserved only for women. We are pioneers in helping men who want to experience unusual apparel made for men's shapes, sizes and anatomy.)
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by crfriend »

pleated wrote:Here, from a woman whose blog was quoted in the article, is a link to her reaction. She says that "Ms. Padawer did a fantastic job on the article"
That's all well and good, but what of the case where "gender" (however one wants to define it) has no bearing whatsoever on the decision on what to wear? Or am I the sole exception to that on the planet?

If I'm the lone individual on the planet who, as a guy, wears skirts openly as a guy and have precisely no gender "concerns" at all, then I'll accept the fact that I'm an anomaly. However, I rather suspect I'm not, and I tire of the incessant approach that there is something "wrong" with me that needs "fixing". I am whole, hale, and human -- and I'm a guy. I wear skirts because I like them -- nothing more and nothing less; it does not mean I am mentally "broken", and I resent the allegation.

Three words: "I". "Like". "Skirts". There is no subtext. Period. Full stop.
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by crfriend »

Thanks for your observations, Steve43023; they are salient here. Observation 3, of course, goes without saying, but I would alter observation 1 by pointing out that it's primarily Western Judeo/Islamo/Christian culture that has defined that binary dichotomy, at least when it comes to dress, and I'd tweak observation 2 by substituting the word "appears" for "aspires".

Sometimes I get the impression that we're (or at least I am) tilting at windmills, and I get the frustrated and dejected desire to just say, "The Hell with it!" and go back to trousers.
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by Grok »

It seems that a number of other societies have different attitudes regarding Third Gender.
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by Sarongman »

I wonder does anyone here remember the three or four year old boy in New Zealand who was allowed to wear a red spotted dress by his mother?This was posted over two or three years ago on this site. It would be interesting to see his attitude now he is a 6 or 7 year old and subjest (oops, pun not intended) to peer pressure.
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by kingfish »

r.m.anderson wrote:I have a neat DVD video "The Dress Code" where a young man wears a dress (&tutu).
Can be found on ebay from time to time: present LINK:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid= ... E&_sacat=0
"A comedy that is long on orginality and short on pants" !
If you get a chance to rent or own it - do it - your will enjoy it !

rma
I saw that movie and liked it enough to tape it off the cable TV channel at the time. Only it was titled "Bruno" at the time.

As for the article in the O.P., I have to say it did stir a little bit of reminiscence regarding my own childhood. And boy did I repress that urge at the time. I buried that so hard and so fast that absolutely nobody found out the wiser until I was nearly 30. Of course, the side effect was that I also didn't let anyone close enough emotionally to make anything of a romantic connection until after I came to terms with it.

More power to those kids and the parents who support their individuality.
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by Stevie D »

Sarongman wrote:I wonder does anyone here remember the three or four year old boy in New Zealand who was allowed to wear a red spotted dress by his mother?This was posted over two or three years ago on this site.
Yes - Stu posted it:
http://www.skirtcafe.org/forums/viewtop ... 58&t=11476

Here's a photo of the boy:
http://www2.everybody.co.nz/forum/ubbth ... ost1969048

The comments of the various Mums on the forum are most enlightened. So easy-going. How refreshing.
It would be interesting to see his attitude now he is a 6 or 7 year old and subjest (oops, pun not intended) to peer pressure.
The forum thread never developed further, so we shall never know from that source at least.
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by klaatu »

That's all well and good, but what of the case where "gender" (however one wants to define it) has no bearing whatsoever on the decision on what to wear? Or am I the sole exception to that on the planet?
Carl... you are not alone... I agree with everything that you have posted on this thread. I too wear skirts and anything else i damn well please because I like them. Nothing more, nothing less. It has absolutely nothing to do with any gender variations. I am me, I am male, I will wear what I want to wear. To quote an old song by the Animals from long ago...It's my life and I'll do (and wear) what I want!!!!
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by Milfmog »

klaatu wrote:
That's all well and good, but what of the case where "gender" (however one wants to define it) has no bearing whatsoever on the decision on what to wear? Or am I the sole exception to that on the planet?

Carl... you are not alone... I agree with everything that you have posted on this thread. I too wear skirts and anything else i damn well please because I like them. Nothing more, nothing less. It has absolutely nothing to do with any gender variations. I am me, I am male, I will wear what I want to wear. To quote an old song by the Animals from long ago...It's my life and I'll do (and wear) what I want!!!!
klaatu,

I think, and sincerely hope, that Carl was being rhetorical when he wrote that. I suspect that a significant proportion, quite possibly a large majority, of the members here fall into that category. I know that I too fit firmly into that group. Comfort is my main driver, followed, if I'm totally honest, by the fun of not pandering to other people's pre-conceptions.

Have fun,


Ian.
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

Post by crfriend »

Milfmog wrote:I think, and sincerely hope, that Carl was being rhetorical when he wrote that.
Yes, I was being rhetorical, and the second paragraph went on to show that. However, the incessant conflation of clothing-choice with "gender confusion" really infuriates me. What I decide to wear does not make me, or my mind, somehow "broken" and in need of "repair".
I suspect that a significant proportion, quite possibly a large majority, of the members here fall into that category.
My personal suspicion is that it's not just the membership here, but probably the case of a decent percentage of the "classic" crossdressing community; clearly there are those who get a rush from "trying to pass", but I rather suspect that for most that's just too darn much work and who would be happier in their male personae just ramming both legs down one pipe and being done with. It's the excess baggage that's the problem, not the skirt.
Comfort is my main driver, followed, if I'm totally honest, by the fun of not pandering to other people's pre-conceptions.
It is sometimes fun thumbing one's nose at "social conventions", and I think the world would be a better place if more folks did it from time to time.
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Re: What's so bad about a boy who wants to wear a dress?

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