other ways of going public

[ethelthefrog]

For me, if I used any name other than "ethelthefrog" nobody would recognise me. Many of my online associates call me Ethel, and most have forgotten that I'm actually Paul. In fact, most of them now forget that Ethel isn't a boy's name. All my family and friends in realspace also know that I tend to be ethelthefrog online. What's more, it's a Python reference, and nothing sums me up better.

Paul.

[skirtyscot]

Obscure French words, Monty Python ...bah! You've both lost me. I've heard of Eric the half a bee, but I can't think of any Python frogs.

[crfriend]

I can't think of any Python frogs.

Even crunchy ones?

Many of my online associates call me Ethel, and most have forgotten that I'm actually Paul. In fact, most of them now forget that Ethel isn't a boy's name.

How do we know that it's not?

That's not just a rhetorical question, for what's in a name? (And we can leave T. S. Eliot out of this.) Ultimately, a "name" is nothing more than a series of utterances that we know that we are known by. There have been plenty of boys named "Carol" and more than a few girls named "Michael". (For the sake of argument we shall omit A boy named Sue, but it's a darned good listen.)

As a further-afield comment, "Ethel" used to be the term applied to "high test" gasoline in the USA. So, Paul, you have a high-octane name there -- relish it!

[skirtyscot]

There have been plenty of boys named "Carol"

Yeah, there was some old Polish guy, used to be on the telly quite a lot, wearing long white robes. Sometimes wore a big hat and carried a long fancy stick thingy. Who was he again? His party trick was to kiss the tarmac when he got off a plane - each to his own, I suppose.

[ethelthefrog]

...kiss the tarmac when he got off a plane...

That was just to cover the fact that he tripped on his dress on the bottom step.

Every time.


And, to answer the other question, "Ethel the Frog" is the name of a serious current-affairs programme, presented by John Cleese. Specifically

"Good evening. Tonight, on Ethel the Frog, we look at violence. The violence of British gangland..." and it went on to talk of the Piranha brothers, Doug and Dinsdale, and their unique combination of simile and thuggery, and of Dinsdale's fear of a giant hedgehog called Spiny Norman.

I first used the name in 1994, and it stuck immediately.



Paul.
The high octane (and now the news for parrots).

[ethelthefrog]

...most of them now forget that Ethel isn't a boy's name.

How do we know that it's not?

Well considered and well delivered as usual, Dr Carl (I'm not going to let you forget that honourary phud). Like skirts on men, I guess it's an exposure thing. As people see more of us about, skirts will become more acceptable on us. My online chums know exactly one Ethel, and he's a guy, ergo Ethel is a guy's name. Because it's the name of a guy.

Often life is complicated and difficult. It's nice on the odd occasion when it's simple.

Thanks for the insight.


Paul.

[skirtyscot]

Ethel is a name that has gone out of fashion - how many Ethels are there under the age of 70? So assuming your friends are not that old, it's not surprising that they regard it as a man's name.

But you're going against the flow taking a girl's name. Freakonomics (great book) had a chapter on how names migrate across sexes, races and social classes. It's more common for boy's names to get colonised by girls, e.g. Lesley, Lindsay.

Anyway, no matter how unusual, opposite-sex or plain loony a name is, pretty soon people stop noticing that and it's just a name. Take Peaches Geldof, Moon Unit Zappa, and all the other pop star's kids lumbered with bizarre names which Mum and Dad dreamed up when they were stoned. Would have been no different after the first 5 mintes if they had been called Cathy or Dave!

[crfriend]

Ethel is a name that has gone out of fashion - how many Ethels are there under the age of 70? So assuming your friends are not that old, it's not surprising that they reard it as a man's name.

The nice thing about fashions is that they come and go like the tides. What was once the height of fashion will be again before too long, and what's in today may well be out tomorrow. I wish that would happen with men only considering trousers!

My thesis from the other evening was that names only connote gender if we consciously assign them that; hence, "Ethel" is, at the core of it, no more feminine, or masculine, than, say, "Robert"? It's also worth noting that there are a lot of dual-purpose names out there. "Robin" comes to mind, and it was quite ambiguous in my father's early years whether "Robin" or "Richard" would stick. (I have the documentation to prove this, and it would have been rich pickings for blackmail on my dear old dad if I'd had it whilst he was alive.)

So, let's back off for just a moment on names -- for they are just a series of utterances after all -- and ponder whether the notion works in all environments. Certainly, "Elizabeth" will be immediately interpreted as a feminine name in Western circles? What happens if one could break out of that mindset and find a culture "uncontaminated" by Western thinking? Could the interpretation be reversed? Could it just be an identifier, like, say, "Carol"? Or, "main()"?

The "celebrity world" frequently does things we "mere mortals" find daft, but that's because celebrities are allowed to get away with it -- and we allow them to.

To abstract the thought a bit farther, who is to say that skirted garments are inherently feminine? Do the Bhutanese? The Polynesians?

Does it matter? Really!

[Dale]

Hello, from New Mexico. I started in business for myself (no jobs) as an independent video producer (standard and high definition). There are funding sources available for the production of independent documentaries. If I can figure out what the production cost are going to be I can submit an application in an attempt to secure some of these funds. I would need to know if any of the U.S. members of this forum would be interested in appearing in a "Men in Skirts" documentary. If so how many of you and your approximate location so I can determine travel, food, and lodging costs. The other production costs are easier to determine. If this can be done there is a reasonable chance of getting air time on the Documentary Channel (satellite / cable TV). This forum seems to me to be a lot of preaching to the choir, not to belittle this forum, I am thankful I found it. If we want to get the message out to the general populace that skirts are an acceptable alternative to pants for male fashion, the message needs wider distribution. I would like some feedback please, good or bad, what do you think (it also O.K. if you all think I am nuts). I would have to limit this to the U.S. as I know that in the current economic climate the costs would be more than could be possibly raised to take in the overseas members (sorry). If skirtcafe forum members are interested in such an undertaking I will work on a proposal. Just an idea I had when I woke up this morning.

Dale