Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby Daryl » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:02 pm

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:Hello Daryl,
WOW! Nobody wants to replace one kind of torture with another! OK?


Not unless we're getting paid for it. No mentation without compensation is what I always say.

Your next 56 (I wasn't counting when reading so that's just an estimate) paragraphs reminded me how much we agree on a lot of things.

Would you ask a Jew to stand in a room full of Nazis and tell them their beliefs are wrong? Just when I begin to think we agree on more than we disagree on, you pull that sort of thing.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby pelmut » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:08 pm

Daryl wrote:...References to illuminating materials are welcome, but not a substitute for making your own points in a social forum.

I thought the point of this forum was informed discussion.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby Fred in Skirts » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:28 pm

Lets all calm down and sit back and relax a bit. Have a beer and chill awhile.

Has anyone been able to find out anymore actual information about the outcome for the boy in question??
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby Uncle Al » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:56 pm

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I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby crfriend » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:40 am


OK, now as a boy... Both parents now seem to be under gag orders and the mother wants the judge removed [1]. And here we are, as mature adults, trying to second-guess a seven-year-old who is being pulled in more ways than they [0] ever imagined possible.

Let the kid be a kid. It'll sort itself out in time.



[0] To point up the inanity of the singular "they".
[1] The judge disagreed with me? That will not do!
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby Daryl » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:55 am

pelmut wrote:
Daryl wrote:...References to illuminating materials are welcome, but not a substitute for making your own points in a social forum.

I thought the point of this forum was informed discussion.


With who as the arbiter of that, Pelmut?
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby crfriend » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:00 pm

Enough. Stop the bickering. We've already lost one long-term member over this and I don't want to see any more go.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby skirtyscot » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:24 pm

Judge Kim Cooks placed both parents under a gag order and granted joint managing conservatorship to both parents in late October, meaning they must both consent to any medical treatments their children are given.


So he won't be having any. His father will never agree to it.

As part of the ruling, James Younger was allowed to decide which name he wanted to be called and how he wanted to present himself.

James decided to attend school as a boy and be called by his given name.


So it's his choice. Makes sense to me. Only problem is making sure he isn't being leant on by one parent or the other. Maybe find him some foster parents for a wee while, give him some peace to make his mind up?
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby Sinned » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:20 pm

How about him living with one of his grandparents for a while. As grandparents ourselves we know how, in the event of familial disagreements, such an arrangement can provide space to calm things down and allow time to settle things. I would advise against foster parents as they can provoke more problems than they solve. I wouldn't have thought them appropriate in a case like this. No, grandparents every time. Failing that a closeish neutral relative.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:50 pm

As fate would have it, this morning’s Apple News included a piece from Vox on the 7-year-old transgendered girl we have been discussing. It was such a long piece that I have to confess I only read about half of it and the last few paragraphs. I barely skimmed the rest.

The link is just below. For those of you who don’t have the interest to read even as much as I did, my synopsis is below the link. Before you dive into either, I want to share with you how the people who put together the Media Bias Chart regards Vox. The vertical axis of the graph runs from “Contains Inaccuracies/Fabricated Into” to “Original Fact Reporting.” That is, from Fox News, Occupy Democrats, Infowars, et. al. to AP, Reuters, Bloomberg, et. al. The horizontal axis goes from “Most Extreme Liberal” (patribotics) to “Most Extreme Conservative” (Infowars). The infographic also lumps the sources into categories of “Nonsense Damaging to Public Discourse,” “Unfair Interpretation of the News” (Fox News, Daily Mail, and Forward Progressives all sit on the line between those 2 categories) to “Fair Interpretation of the News” and finally “News.” Vox is categorized as giving “Fair Interpretations of the News” and shown as straddling the line between “Skews Liberal” and “Hyper Partisan Liberal.” My copy of the graph is dated 2018 so you can be confident it’s up to date. I share all this so you have an outside basis for judging the piece’s accuracy.

The link is https://apple.news/ABYiweJOMRPCH4twsF0EFog.

The Vox articles provides a lot of useful background for understanding the issues involved and answers a number of issues that have been raised in our thread. One of our members noted that a person can transition as an adult so what’s the rush?

Vox provides some great information and perspective that I hadn’t thought of. It basically comes down to the fact that at a young age, there isn’t that much physical difference between pre-pubescent boys and girls. Consequently, if there is any uncertainty in the child’s mind it’s a great time to explore and investigate without making any physical changes. Not even puberty blockers are prescribed until puberty; there’s no need until then.

It doesn’t often work this way, but I heard on NPR about a child who insisted he was a girl! To the point that his mother divorced the father because Dad insisted the kid was his little man and they moved several times because despite California state law requiring it of public schools, it took several tries to find a school that supported the child’s gender identity. After a couple years of living and going to school as a girl, the child realized that they’re gender fluid. As this child said on NPR, “When I’m asked if I’m a boy or a girl, some days I say, ‘I’m a girl!’ Other days, I say, ‘I’m a boy!’ And sometimes I ask, ‘Does it really matter?’” The other kids and the teachers just roll with whatever identity the child brings to school that day.

Until the mother found such a supportive school, her child was suicidal. Now he’s thriving! Did any of you at 8-10 years old have the personal insight and self-confidence to say such a thing to adults (assuming it was true)?

Most importantly, Vox pointed out that a child who is allowed to transition socially at an early age, has a childhood that fits who they are. To get an idea of what that is all about, can any of you imagine what your life would be like if you had been raised as a girl until you reached the age of majority and only then were allowed to live as a male?

The purpose of puberty blockers is to delay the permanent changes that come with puberty. In males: broader shoulders, narrower hips, flatter buttocks and facial and body hair. For females: all around slighter builds, but with broader hips, fuller buttocks and breasts, little to no facial hair and less and finer body hair. Not to mention the differences in their voice. While some of this can be modified later in life, it’s expensive, painful and does nothing to alter one’s basic body structure. Consequently, such people may never be fully accepted as who they are.

As to the subject case of the 7-year-old in Texas, Vox provided some critical, clarifying details. In the first place, the jury in this case found in favor of the mother and it was the judge who reversed that and gave both parents joint conservatorship.

Clearly one parent or the other is just seeing what they want to see and is misapprehending the truth. Consider these details that Vox reported:
• The parents weren’t just divorced, their marriage had been annulled. The husband had so completely misrepresented his employment history, income and a host of other personal background items, including his military service, that the court found that she had been married under false pretenses so the marriage was null and void.
• The mother already had 2 older daughters from previous marriage so it’s unlikely she’d need a 3rd.
• The backlash from this case has been so vicious and violent she had to close down her pediatric practice. The husband, on the other hand has raised $139,000, and counting, on this case. If anyone’s got an ulterior motive, it looks more likely that it is the father.
• Luna started asking to wear dresses at 3 and insisting she was a girl by 5.
• Her twin brother confirmed in court that Luna was a girl.
• The father insisted on shaving Luna’s head and her wearing boy’s clothes, even though her twin’s hair is long, when they were with their father.
• The father’s proposed treatment, “watchful waiting” I a discredited approach to these situations based on a debunked study.
• As I said, the jury found for the mother. Having sat on a number of juries, I can tell you that judgement by a jury of one’s own peers works incredibly well! After the last one I sat on the judge came back to the Jury Room to thank us all again, because she didn’t feel that with all of her training and experience, she could have come up with as good of a decision as the 12 of us did together.
• As part of the judge’s ruling, the father was granted custody for one school day each week.
• Consequently, on that day Luna was sent to school with short hair and in boy’s clothes. The teacher had spare clothing for Luna and told her, if she wanted to, she could change clothes. Luna changed into a dress.

Finally, I want to respond to an earlier post directly. I was accused of insisting that all of you “read from the right Bible.” I’m not sure exactly what is meant by that so let me explain why I cite that source.

It seems to me that the National Geographic magazine is a well-regarded publication noted for not only the high quality of its photography, but also for the quality of its reporting, in particular its objectivity, thoroughness and good writing. It is readily available in most public libraries and is written for the general public rather than for specialist in a field.

Recently, I attended a lecture on gender and when I talked to the speaker afterwards, he confirmed that the January 2017 issue of National Geographic was indeed an excellent source on the topic for its accuracy, completeness and accessibility.

Considering all that, I ask my critic to either recommend a credible source that is equally up-to-date or take back his slur.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby oldsalt1 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:52 pm

What I consider is that Vox is a left leaning liberal rag that always publishes the left prospective and never gives any credit to the right's prospective .

That being said I don't believe anything that they say.

Now let me get this straight you are now saying that a 3 year old is capable of deciding that he wants to wear dresses . Is it the dress or was it the pretty colors that was the attraction .

I would like the members of the café to think of any 3 year old that they have known . and tell me if they were capable of making that decision
Last edited by oldsalt1 on Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby moonshadow » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:37 pm

I'll say this, then I'm back to my little crack in the floor...

My bet is that this kid is going to be one screwed up person as they get older. And that's got nothing to do with the trans thing necessarily...

I just can't imagine being that age and aware of the fact that my entire personal life is suddenly the business of the whole freakin' world...

But it sounds like from my skimming assessment of the situation, that even if the kid was a regular run of the mill "cis-person", there would still be a fair share of drama unfolding in THIS household... And another point of observation, if it were a cis-kid we're talking about it would just be another run of the mill family custody dispute like the hundreds if not thousands heard every day in courthouses across the country.

The child has my sympathies, and quite honestly, this sympathy is the only emotion I feel at the moment.

I have no opinion other than to "let the court decide". [0] I do not envy the job of the judge nor jury in this matter...

[0] We are after all, a nation of republican law, not mob rule. Lets try not to forget that.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby Daryl » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:50 am

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:Finally, I want to respond to an earlier post directly. I was accused of insisting that all of you “read from the right Bible.” I’m not sure exactly what is meant by that so let me explain why I cite that source.

It seems to me that the National Geographic magazine is a well-regarded publication noted for not only the high quality of its photography, but also for the quality of its reporting, in particular its objectivity, thoroughness and good writing. It is readily available in most public libraries and is written for the general public rather than for specialist in a field.

Recently, I attended a lecture on gender and when I talked to the speaker afterwards, he confirmed that the January 2017 issue of National Geographic was indeed an excellent source on the topic for its accuracy, completeness and accessibility.

Considering all that, I ask my critic to either recommend a credible source that is equally up-to-date or take back his slur.


An either/or challenge? "Slur"? Oh don't be so dramatic.

I can't believe that you don't know what I meant by "read from the right Bible". That's a metaphor I may employ anytime someone tries to "win" by placing a burden of labour on his conversational partner in lieue of simply conversing and countering anything he thinks needs countering with his own words. I'm particularly apt to employ it when the topic is shot through with as many beliefs as it is with facts, as I have said in very many ways about this one.

I'm perfectly willing to be convinced of anything even if I do bring strong opinions of my own to the conversation, but just telling me I'm uneducated and I should read more (from your chosen bibles) otherwise you win, well, that's just downright antisocial. Explain it to me in your own words, and without rhetorical techniques designed to win audience approval. If you think I need educating, then educate me...but don't just tell me. If something you say is unconvincing to me, I will tell you why and you can work on that one next.

The unacknowledged elephant in this room, in fact in the world today, is that none of us trust any sources we don't already agree with anymore. That's why I've stopped looking to "sources" to tell me what to think and believe, and refuse to try to use them as if they should compel anyone else to my point of view. Sometimes I will use them when they help illustrate something, for example when they illustrate why I or people like me think certain things, but mostly I expect person-to-person engagement not reading assignments. I could do reading assignments without even signing in.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby Daryl » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:06 am

oldsalt1 wrote:Now let me get this straight you are now saying that a 3 year old is capable of deciding that he wants to wear dresses . Is it the dress or was it the pretty colors that was the attraction .

I would like the members of the café to think of any 3 year old that they have known . and tell me if they were capable of making that decision


Of course they can make that decision. I would have let any of my boys wear a dress if they wanted to at the age of 3 but I would have steered them into "normal" dress for boys when they started going to school a year later, unless I perceived that the school was very friendly to boys being outside the "normal" box without adding any "gender identity" crap to it.
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Re: Custody battle in Texas over 7-year-old transgender

Postby oldsalt1 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:56 am

Daryl I guess my point was missed . For a person making a decision at the ripe old age of three is the attraction to the item the lure of the item itself shinny color …..

or is it the underlying meaning of wearing that particular item being a boy or a girl
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