Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Ralph » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:56 am

The greatest insult you can offer a man is to call him effeminate, but women esteem it a compliment to be told they have a boyish figure and that they have a masculine intellect.”

And here, 80 years later, this is still the crux of the matter. For all the advances in equality for women as they have spent a century fighting and clawing their way up just to where they can be treated as equals with men, society's dirty little secret is that we (not any of us, of course) see women attempting to be more masculine as improving their lot, whilst a man attempting to be more feminine is thought to be degrading himself.

Not one of our arguments explaining why men in skirts aren't gay, or trans, or sex predators, will matter until we can surmount that single biggest misconception about so-called gender equality.

I, too, have considered myself "gender-nonconforming" at times, but as I look at the short end of my time on this planet I'm done with labels. When I visit reddit discussions on gender fluid or nonbinary or whatever, it's all about (mostly) men wanting to present as (mostly) female, or at best ambiguous/asexual. That's not me either. I want to look like a man; I want to be treated as a man; I like being a man. I just hate the clothes that men are expected to wear, so I dress from the other side of the aisle. Apart from /r/menskirts/ there's nothing out there; that subreddit gets no more than one post every three to six months and it's mostly guys showing off their legs and trying to look cute.

And, of course, the occasional visit from someone demanding to know why men aren't allowed to wear skirts. Sound familiar? :D
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby WesleyN » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:20 pm

I do not think it's important whether I am male or female. In my passport is written Male as gender, because I was born as a boy. I just choose myself. I choose what I think is important. And indeed we live too short to put myself aside. People who know me well and love me, accept me as I am. Those people are important to me. People always have an opinion about you. Why do you have to behave as people expect from you. Be who you are. They then get a fairer person in return.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby pelmut » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:45 am

moonshadow wrote:The trans box is still a box. I like to think outside said box.

The problems are caused by people who can only think in terms of boxes and then try to impose their views on others.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby lazerr » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:52 pm

I think that boxes can be very convenient. If you can identify a box, and conform to it, it implies instant acceptance. Now, I believe, such acceptance is not real acceptance, but simply ignorance of who you really are. They don't know the real you, but, since you are appearing to be one of them, you are accepted to some degree. Real acceptance can only come if you are not simply imitating others and joining the box. That is what freedom is, the choice to be yourself, but that same freedom, to some, allows others to try and force compliance with the way they think you (and everyone else) should be.

I have been in a situation where my christian church professed unconditional love, but still required I conform, so that isn't unconditional. Shunning is a real thing, but I guess is better than imposition of belief through laws or other forms of force..
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby WesleyN » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:08 pm

People want confirmation. People want to belong to something, identify themselves with something. I also thought it was scary to be myself. I was also afraid to show who I am. I also had of what others will think of me. That doubt is still there. But now I have to be able to be myself. I'm not doing anything wrong.

I never wanted to belong to a group. Maybe because I felt that I did not belong anywhere. Probably I feel lonely sometimes, because I do not always feel understood. It is a lonely battle, even though I get a lot of understanding right and left. I can not always show: This is me. My best friends now know the real me.

Yet you sometimes feel doubt. Also because you hardly see anyone you feel connected to. And yet I do not need to go out in a group with men in skirts. I prefer to be in company with my friends, who really know me.

The fact whether or not I am a real man does not interest me. Whether I am accepted by everyone, is not that important to me either. And if I am not considered full, who determines that. People who do not accept me are not important to me.

I do not need confirmation for who I am. I know that very well. I do enough self-examination. Fortunately, I can now also talk about my own feelings and negative experiences that I have had. I want to be honest with myself and with others who deserve it. I do not feel the need to tell my story to anyone.

And @lazerr. I can totally agree with your words.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby skirtyscot » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:11 am

pelmut wrote:
moonshadow wrote:The trans box is still a box. I like to think outside said box.

The problems are caused by people who can only think in terms of boxes and then try to impose their views on others.


The whole notion of transgender requires the boxes, and a movement from one to the other.
Keep on skirting,

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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Gusto10 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:31 pm

The original story with which this thread commenced, reminded me of a smallish thing with my ex many years ago. She asked me if she could wear a pair of my socks. I answered with yes, and do you mind if I would wear a pair of your tights. No answer, she didn't touch my socks after that day.

Boxes; society can't do without in order to understand things. We have been tought to think in boxes. If it doesn't fit in a box it's not the problem of the one who created the box, but of the one who doesn't fit. The story of Oedipus and the Cyclops, one way or the other you were made to fit the bed.
Nowadays one can see such in daily life, at least here in the ld world where salaries are paid once a month around the 24th. Bills, automatic withdrawls are all focused on the day salaries are paid out, when you're self employed you do have a major problem.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby weeladdie18 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:04 am

crfriend wrote:
Stu wrote:The danger is for the men-in-skirts issue to be hijacked by narrow lobby groups such as LGBT or feminism rather than being seen as simply a matter of men's rights to enjoy a broader range of sartorial options as women take for granted.

This is my primary worry. Whilst it might seem that there is surface commonality between "men-in-skirts" and the other groups, once one starts digging one recognises the agendas are entirely different. We're already seeing this in the overt hijacking of "freedom of choice over what to wear" as being an absolute statement of being trans-*. This'll put the straight guys off the scent faster than anything going, and I suspect these pressure-groups know it and are acting accordingly.

The main issue is that there really isn't the "freedom to choose what to wear" if one is a straight male in modern western society. If one attempts to exercise freedom, one automatically gets classified into a box that entirely likely doesn't fit. Face it, the vast majority of guys are perfectly straight -- and the various other labels don't apply, and guys quite rightfully have a right to object to being classified under such labels. Unfortunately, there's a fear of ridicule and rejection that goes along with the "off-normal" (there, I've gone and said it) labels, and it's that fear that keeps the straight guys from exercising what ought to be a reasonable freedom to chose what the want to wear. So they self-police and the attitude hardens.

In the state election just passed in Massachusetts was a referendum question concerning "gender expression" as it pertains to public accommodations (a "potty law"). The question was whether to uphold what the legislature already passed or to repeal it ("Yes" and "No" respectively). I took some playful stick at the place I hang on weekends over this, was asked whether I voted yes or no (I voted "Yes" [0]), and was asked whether I was going to start using the women's room. I simply stated, "No, I'm a guy. Why would I want to do that?". The guy was trying to get a rise out of me, and I wasn't going to take the bait. However, I was offended that the notion even arose. I wear skirts (and the occasional dress) out of choice and because I like the feel and looks of the garments -- not because I something I'm not, nor am I trying to "game the system" by portraying myself as something I'm not.

[0] by way of poking a stick in the Religious Right's eye. (1) Who am I to judge somebody else, (2) The law doesn't apply to me and doesn't hurt anybody, and (3) To tell the holier-than-thou to get a life and stay out of others' lives. "Yes" was chosen by a margin of 68% to 32% which gives an indication of the hold that the far right in Massachusetts has.


Although Carl made this post nearly two months ago, I feel this is fair comment....The male is unlikely to wear skirts
as a new male fashion or a modern style of male attire....On the one hand there is some resistance from SWIMBO and
on the other he is likely to be mocked by lower class ill bred males.....

The Man in a Skirt or Dress who has considered this style of attire for most of his life,...has had years to consider
his chosen new style of attire .
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby weeladdie18 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:35 am

When we Men in Skirts or Dresses look at the latest male..... "Cross Dressing " ...Male outfits on the Catwalk,
our first comment is usually .... " I would not be seen dead in that outfit . "

As the M.I.S. style of male attire was introduced in the Swinging Sixties.....it is interesting to note that
the fashion designers have never taken our practical requirements seriously over the past 50 years.....

Although there are "Ethnic Minority Groups " who still wear their regional traditional male " skirt like " ..garments..
We...The Men in Skirts ...in our new age...cultural group are still in a new minority cultural group..

I am sufficiently experienced to wear the skirt in the manner in which I choose.....
I simply remind folks that I find my style of attire very comfortable and
I consider that I am too young to be a Crank.......L.O.L.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Grok » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:01 pm

weeladdie18 wrote:As the M.I.S. style of male attire was introduced in the Swinging Sixties.....it is interesting to note that
the fashion designers have never taken our practical requirements seriously over the past 50 years.....
Isn't the fashion industry essentially based on womens' fashion?

So the fashion designers try to design as though we are women. :roll: And if a skirt is intended to show off a woman's sexuality, then you don't want to mar the smooth surface with bulging pockets. :shock:
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby dillon » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:09 am

Grok wrote:
weeladdie18 wrote:As the M.I.S. style of male attire was introduced in the Swinging Sixties.....it is interesting to note that
the fashion designers have never taken our practical requirements seriously over the past 50 years.....
Isn't the fashion industry essentially based on womens' fashion?

So the fashion designers try to design as though we are women. :roll: And if a skirt is intended to show off a woman's sexuality, then you don't want to mar the smooth surface with bulging pockets. :shock:


Yep. I think the best we can hope for is that someone begins designing skirts that are - dare I utter it - unisex, or, better, non-sexed fashion. Until then I expect our primary choices will remain on the female side of the aisle.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Dust » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:58 pm

dillon wrote:
Grok wrote:
weeladdie18 wrote:As the M.I.S. style of male attire was introduced in the Swinging Sixties.....it is interesting to note that
the fashion designers have never taken our practical requirements seriously over the past 50 years.....
Isn't the fashion industry essentially based on womens' fashion?

So the fashion designers try to design as though we are women. :roll: And if a skirt is intended to show off a woman's sexuality, then you don't want to mar the smooth surface with bulging pockets. :shock:


Yep. I think the best we can hope for is that someone begins designing skirts that are - dare I utter it - unisex, or, better, non-sexed fashion. Until then I expect our primary choices will remain on the female side of the aisle.

I really think what we need is male skirts designed by someone from outside the fashion industry.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby JohnH » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:14 am

Dust wrote:
dillon wrote:
Grok wrote:Isn't the fashion industry essentially based on womens' fashion?

So the fashion designers try to design as though we are women. :roll: And if a skirt is intended to show off a woman's sexuality, then you don't want to mar the smooth surface with bulging pockets. :shock:


Yep. I think the best we can hope for is that someone begins designing skirts that are - dare I utter it - unisex, or, better, non-sexed fashion. Until then I expect our primary choices will remain on the female side of the aisle.

I really think what we need is male skirts designed by someone from outside the fashion industry.

Perhaps kilt makers might broaden their product lines to include non-kilt skirts.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby Gusto10 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:10 am

Dust wrote:
dillon wrote:As the M.I.S. style of male attire was introduced in the Swinging Sixties.....it is interesting to note that
the fashion designers have never taken our practical requirements seriously over the past 50 years.....

So the fashion designers try to design as though we are women. :roll: And if a skirt is intended to show off a woman's sexuality, then you don't want to mar the smooth surface with bulging pockets.

Yep. I think the best we can hope for is that someone begins designing skirts that are - dare I utter it - unisex, or, better, non-sexed fashion. Until then I expect our primary choices will remain on the female side of the aisle.

I really think what we need is male skirts designed by someone from outside the fashion industry.
[/quote]
Some producers:
- amok in Switzerland
- Hiatus in France
- mr Kirt in Italy
- utility kilt in USA
- der-herrenrock in Germany
etc.
One "problem" with all of them is i.m.o. that the styles are outspoken.
I guess the question is more how to get te skirt for men as common item in the shops and how to get the mindset going that wearing a (wrap) skirt is totally acceptable with a referral to history, The argument of comfort and health. Also in respect of (wrap)skirts, the tartans aren't limited to Schatland, Wales and Ireland; most villages of western France have tartans, even into the Jura.
A mindset might also be required as when one reads about men wearing skirts in the newspapers, the comments will be often in the line, nice but not for may man.
Maybe, due to the robotisation of the workplace, the notion will arise that safety doesn't call for trousers/pants anymore as all work is done by remote control.
It would need a change of mind by many and also the pricing should become less of a threshold.
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Re: Why Most Men Still Don’t Casually Wear Dresses

Postby weeladdie18 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:06 am

I do feel that the skirt is more suitable and practical for the male form than the dress as generally speaking the
" Average Male " is a different shape to the " Average Female "....
....On average the loose fitting female skirt with an elasticated waist and a hem below the knee is more practical for the male
than a high fashion female style of tight fitting garment.

I feel that by deliberately not trying to look.. " Female ".. the male will develop a " Male Style " of skirt wearing.......
with a new male style of garment..........

One of the points I have noticed is that the style of garment I choose to purchase from the female side of the isle
is rarely seen out on the street being worn by a Female.....This is perhaps how the Male styling of Skirt Wearing will progress.

Some Males may agree that it is easier and more economically viable for the male to buy his skirts off an existing fashion peg
than to create an entirely new Male Skirt Market which is unlikely to be cost effective..........weeladdie
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